Choosing Between Universities and Offers

[ucat3300+]

Hey guys, I'm really having a dilemma between UWA and Curtin. Received offers from both, will be moving in from interstate and have to choose soon.

Here is my thinking process so far:

UWA:
Pros:
- Rich history means better academic staff
- It's just a lot more established, lots of prominent figures are from UWA e.g. former chief health officer of Australia
- Hospital consultants went to UWA, might look favourably at UWA graduates than Curtin graduates (humans are all slightly biased)
- Obviously 'prestige doesn't matter in medicine' but nicer buildings, more prestigious 'group of 8 sandstone uni'
Cons:
- One year longer
- Although everyone says 65 WAM is a walk in the park, added stress
- Don't get to taste what medicine is like from the get-go, which is undesirable as you want to find out what medicine is like and whether it is right for you as early as possible

Curtin:
Pros:
- One year shorter
- Medicine from day 1, and no stress of getting below 65 for whatever reason (personal illness, misadventure, etc.) and getting booted from medicine

Cons:
- Only built in 2017
- Worse teaching staff compared to UWA (yes, Curtin is AMC accredited blah blah but still)
- Less prestigious
- Massive backlash from doctor community in WA when it was first built
- There aren't going to be any senior doctors in hospitals who are Curtin graduates and can support future Curtin graduates

Please help me make a decision here. Thanks.

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Hey guys, I'm really having a dilemma between UWA and Curtin. Received offers from both, will be moving in from interstate and have to choose by tonight.

Here is my thinking process so far:

UWA:
Pros:
- Rich history means better academic staff
- It's just a lot more established, lots of prominent figures are from UWA e.g. former chief health officer of Australia
- Hospital consultants went to UWA, might look favourably at UWA graduates than Curtin graduates (humans are all slightly biased)
- Obviously 'prestige doesn't matter in medicine' but nicer buildings, more prestigious 'group of 8 sandstone uni'
Cons:
- One year longer
- Although everyone says 65 WAM is a walk in the park, added stress
- Don't get to taste what medicine is like from the get-go, which is undesirable as you want to find out what medicine is like and whether it is right for you as early as possible

Curtin:
Pros:
- One year shorter
- Medicine from day 1, and no stress of getting below 65 for whatever reason (personal illness, misadventure, etc.) and getting booted from medicine

Cons:
- Only built in 2017
- Worse teaching staff compared to UWA (yes, Curtin is AMC accredited blah blah but still)
- Less prestigious
- Massive backlash from doctor community in WA when it was first built
- There aren't going to be any senior doctors in hospitals who are Curtin graduates and can support future Curtin graduates

Please help me make a decision here. Thanks.

On what basis are you judging the quality of the teaching? Is this an assumption on your part or something you know for a fact (and if so, how)?

Are both offers CSP?

 

[chinaski]

You do realise that doctors can and do work in hospitals and states in which they didn't train, right? There's not a rabbit-proof fence that guarantees that "hospital consultants went to UWA". Further, if you hold a university appointment in a teaching hospital, you're obliged to teach and support the students who are affiliated with that hospital, regardless of your alma mater.

 

[Caffeine]

Hey guys, I'm really having a dilemma between UWA and Curtin. Received offers from both, will be moving in from interstate and have to choose by tonight.

Here is my thinking process so far:

UWA:
Pros:
- Rich history means better academic staff
- It's just a lot more established, lots of prominent figures are from UWA e.g. former chief health officer of Australia
- Hospital consultants went to UWA, might look favourably at UWA graduates than Curtin graduates (humans are all slightly biased)
- Obviously 'prestige doesn't matter in medicine' but nicer buildings, more prestigious 'group of 8 sandstone uni'
Cons:
- One year longer
- Although everyone says 65 WAM is a walk in the park, added stress
- Don't get to taste what medicine is like from the get-go, which is undesirable as you want to find out what medicine is like and whether it is right for you as early as possible

Curtin:
Pros:
- One year shorter
- Medicine from day 1, and no stress of getting below 65 for whatever reason (personal illness, misadventure, etc.) and getting booted from medicine

Cons:
- Only built in 2017
- Worse teaching staff compared to UWA (yes, Curtin is AMC accredited blah blah but still)
- Less prestigious
- Massive backlash from doctor community in WA when it was first built
- There aren't going to be any senior doctors in hospitals who are Curtin graduates and can support future Curtin graduates
Please help me make a decision here. Thanks.

Selection processes for specialist training programs are not as simple as using your undergraduate medical degree for selection. Most of the time that is useless, unless you have academic awards or health based awards and even then there are so many other requirements that are far more important you don't need to worry about that right now.

Higher Ranked University = Better Academic Staff is a myth. If you compare GO8 UQ vs Griffith vs JCU, there are minimal differences and from personal experience I would say the larger the uni, the less focus you get as a student and the more difficult it is to stand out. The main advantage of UWA is if you do not want to do Medicine straight away, you can tap into the larger student community to allow you to experience other avenues and the GO8 brand might have value. In saying this, it's for limited fields and in general UWA is quite a bit behind both for prestige and quality in these areas compared to larger GO8 universities based in Sydney & Melbourne.

In summary, UWA will waste more of your time, and it's not a guaranteed you'll progress to medicine. Take the safer option

 

[ucat3300+]

Hi, both offers are unbonded, which is what makes this a difficult decision.

Of course, these are all to some extent assumptions that may very well be wrong. I hope I had more accurate information, but I'm only a recent high school graduate.

UWA website shows one of their professor is a Nobel laureate, whereas Curtin teaching staff seem to be mainly general practitioners who don't have PhDs. I think it makes sense that prominent professors would want to go to UWA which is generally considered more prestigious and has a richer history than Curtin.

That part about the hospital consultants was from this forum: https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2689281

Here is the relevant part:

In WA most (Australian trained) consultants went to UWA and so seem to treat students from there with slightly more respect.

The situation with Curtin is hard to predict. There is a lot of anger amongst students and doctors in WA hospitals that the school was approved – it never should have been, there are far too many med students already (as is the case in every other state). In 5 years time there will be 400 medical graduates being pumped out per year – which is insane when you think that only 10 years ago there were only 150 per year. There is so much animosity towards Curtin that I've heard multiple doctors say they'll refuse to teach Curtin students when they start entering the hospital system.

Furthermore, when Curtin was proposed the AMA president criticised it so much, as it adds to an already existing oversupply of medical school graduates, Curtin says they'll produce rural generalists without an actual plan, and saying Tony Abbott built it just to gain popularity.

Here is that article:

Sign in

www.ama.com.au

Furthermore, AMSA and WAMSS both strongly criticised building Curtin:

A third medical school? Consider the facts – WAMSS

wamss.org.au

https://media.amsa.org.au/advocacy/...25_AMSA_PP_Curtin_Medical_School_proposal.pdf

So you can see how after reading all that, one might not want to go to Curtin.

Choosing Between Universities and Offers

Hi everyone, I graduated from Year 12 last year and I decided to take a gap year this year to re-do my UMAT and do some volunteering. I have my heart set on medicine. However, I am unsure where I should put UWA (bonded and unbonded) and Curtin in my preferences in my uni application. These are...

medstudentsonline.com.au

That post explicitly says "I'd stay away from Curtin all the time".

But in terms of practicality, Curtin wins. 1 year shorter, medicine from day 1 - these are all desirable things to me.

Whichever decision I make I don't think it will be a terrible decision, but I do want to make a decision I won't regret in the future..

 

[chinaski]

I get the impression you're fishing for someone who will tell you that UWA is the best choice. Basically, I'd quit with the investment in the 'prestige' angle if I were you. Basically, in Australia, nobody cares where your medical degree is from. As a consultant, I don't give a hoot where a student or colleague went to school.

 

[dotwingz]

This is silly. Those articles say that Curtin shouldn’t of been built because there’s an over supply, nothing about the curtin course itself. The only thing about the curtin course is an anonymous internet forum before the school even existed…

I’ve had teachers with walls of academic achievements, and i’ve had ones with bare minimum qualifications required to do their job. If i’m going to be real I’d say there’s no real discernible difference in the two.

If you want to go to UWA because it’s seemingly more prestigious and it will stroke your ego, then go for it. Otherwise you’ve made no real case.

In summary, UWA will waste more of your time

PS. One more year with extra flexibility to try things other than medicine isn’t a “waste” imo - especially at 18 years old.

 

[A1]

Hi, both offers are unbonded, which is what makes this a difficult decision.

So you got both WA offers but none from home state? See... your home state discriminates against you more than WA does
Now to address a few of your points

UWA website shows one of their professor is a Nobel laureate

Prof Marshall now runs his own Med reasearch company/projects in collaboration with UWA. Unlikely to have any connection with your studying medicine.

when Curtin was proposed the AMA president criticised it so much, as it adds to an already existing oversupply of medical school graduates

Don't lose any sleep over it^, that was just political rubbish from AMA & AMSA. They criticised oversupply of med graduates yet this year WA Health didn't get enough they have employed (at least one that I know of) graduate from Oceanic OUM and is importing 200 junior docs from the UK to help ease the workload.

Curtin says they'll produce rural generalists

That is worth thinking about. Being a recent school Curtin's clinical-placement network is less comprehensive than UWA's, Curtin students are more often sent to outer-metro smaller hospitals. Whether you see that as desirable or less desirable is up to you.

Then at internship stage graduates are selected/employed by one of the 5 Primary Employing Health Service (PEHS)

Intern Recruitment - Postgraduate Medical Council of Western Australia

Internships in Western Australia (WA) are managed annually through a centralised; recruitment process coordinated by PMCWA.

www.pmcwa.org.au

The upper three are based at Tertiary hospitals, the lower two (StJohn Midland & Country Health Service) are not. There's a possibility Curtin grads may be steered more to the lower two. Again, whether you see this as desirable or less desirable or doesn't matter is up to you.

In a nutshell, Curtin is one year shorter, UWA is more established. Whether being more established matters in the end, I don't know.

 

[ucat3300+]

So you got both WA offers but none from home state? See... your home state discriminates against you more than WA does
Now to address a few of your points


Prof Marshall now runs his own Med reasearch company/projects in collaboration with UWA. Unlikely to have any connection with your studying medicine.


Don't lose any sleep over it^, that was just political rubbish from AMA & AMSA. They criticised oversupply of med graduates yet this year WA Health didn't get enough they have employed (at least one that I know of) graduate from Oceanic OUM and is importing 200 junior docs from the UK to help ease the workload.


That is worth thinking about. Being a recent school Curtin's clinical-placement network is less comprehensive than UWA's, Curtin students are more often sent to outer-metro smaller hospitals. Whether you see that as desirable or less desirable is up to you.

Then at internship stage graduates are selected/employed by one of the 5 Primary Employing Health Service (PEHS)

Intern Recruitment - Postgraduate Medical Council of Western Australia

Internships in Western Australia (WA) are managed annually through a centralised; recruitment process coordinated by PMCWA.

www.pmcwa.org.au

The upper three are based at Tertiary hospitals, the lower two (StJohn Midland & Country Health Service) are not. There's a possibility Curtin grads may be steered more to the lower two. Again, whether you see this as desirable or less desirable or doesn't matter is up to you.

In a nutshell, Curtin is one year shorter, UWA is more established. Whether being more established matters in the end, I don't know.

Hey A1!! It's good to see you after so long. Yep, it's funny how things turned out

To focus on your final point regarding clinical placements, regarding clinical placements during medical school, I can't see anything wrong with doing them in outer-metro smaller hospitals. As long as you're getting exposed to all of the different fields of medicine like emergency medicine, OBGYN, psychiatry etc. it's fine right? It wouldn't affect your future career as a doctor, the only bad thing I see is that you have to travel far.

I'm more worried about your statement that Curtin graduates may be steered to non-tertiary hospitals during internship. First, I don't get why this would be the case. I've read through PMCWA's guide for internship applications, and it is a merit-based process where you have to basically write an essay and submit your CV. Are you saying Curtin graduates get discriminated against and get sent to non major hospitals just because they went to Curtin? I know your CV includes which uni you went to, but do hospitals take that into account when selecting interns? I thought they would judge you solely on your written application and uni grades. To do so otherwise would be discrimination right?

But if it is the case that Curtin students are more likely to be sent to rural hospitals for internship due to bias (or whatever other reason), how big of an impact does this have on future career?

From what I've heard, if you want to enter competitive specialties like dermatology or surgery, it is better to do your internship at large tertiary hospitals. This is why bonded medical students don't complete their return of service obligation straight after med school because doing your internship at a large tertiary hospital is crucial for entering competitive specialties, right?

I would really appreciate your opinion on the above two questions, the possibility of Curtin graduates being less likely to do their internships at metropolitan tertiary hospitals significantly changes the decision making process.

Also, if you could choose between Curtin and UWA (i.e. if you were in my shoes), would you choose UWA again or Curtin? Why so?

Thanks A1, you've helped me from the early days and now this final critical decision.

 

[A1]

I've read through PMCWA's guide for internship applications, and it is a merit-based process where you have to basically write an essay and submit your CV.

On surface it's merit-based but, from what I heard from senior doc hpfanfiction, it's more by each PEHS (Primary Employing Health Service)'s selection based on assessments of your clinical placements. So there's a bias toward graduates electing or getting selected to intern where they mostly did their clinicals.

Are you saying Curtin graduates get discriminated against and get sent to non major hospitals just because they went to Curtin?

Curtin's charter says it aims to provide doctors serving outer-metro & regional areas. Steering Curtin graduates to St John Midland & Country Health Service would be along this line, not discriminating against them. But I don't know if it is/will be enforced.

That said I've re-read the Intern recruitment doc, all five PEHS are Tertiary hospitals (previously three). Maybe they have upgraded St John Midland & Country Health Service to Tertiary status.

Also, if you plan to return to home state to intern none of this WA allocation is a concern to you.

(i.e. if you were in my shoes), would you choose UWA again or Curtin? Why so?

Hard to say. Me being WA local I'd choose UWA since my (wealthy) aunt told me not to rush into the busy worklife. You from interstate, an extra year costs $30k extra HECS + living expenses. Are you happy to spend $30k to get one more "easy" year at uni?

 

[A1]

and in general UWA is quite a bit behind both for prestige and quality in these areas compared to larger GO8 universities based in Sydney & Melbourne.

Please spare a minute to read this post

General FunTimes and Meme-ery

I hear this UCAT course is good :) Don't forget to vote for me in the MSO Awards if you felt I was helpful! Dammit!..... I've already done my ucat and I fell for it anyways. Good one 😭👍

medstudentsonline.com.au

 

[cthgpro]

Home state: NSW
Offer 1: UNE (unbonded) 5 Years Armidale
Offer 2: UNSW (Bonded) 6yrs Port Macquarie
Any scholarships offered: Nil
Any accommodation secured: Armidale campus accommodation
Internship location preference: NSW
Other important information: Ok I was all set to go to UNE but just received a call from UNSW with and offer I need to accept by 8am tomorrow! What the??

Is there any reason I shouldn't stick with UNE ? I read that i might be able to transfer to UNSW kensington after phase 1(2 years) but also online it says youre expected to finish the 6 years in UNSW rural schools. I currently live and have family in Sydney.

Thanks for any opinions

 

[Havox]

Definitely choose the unbonded offer. You don't want that hanging over your head when you're trying to deal with specialty training...or ever really. Buying your way out of it is less of an option than it used to be. It's not a choice at all.

The decision making tree is simple
Always go unbonded
Always pick preferred training location
Then go for shortest possible degree in terms of years.

 

[ucat3300+]

On surface it's merit-based but, from what I heard from senior doc hpfanfiction, it's more by each PEHS (Primary Employing Health Service)'s selection based on assessments of your clinical placements. So there's a bias toward graduates electing or getting selected to intern where they mostly did their clinicals.


Curtin's charter says it aims to provide doctors serving outer-metro & regional areas. Steering Curtin graduates to St John Midland & Country Health Service would be along this line, not discriminating against them. But I don't know if it is/will be enforced.

That said I've re-read the Intern recruitment doc, all five PEHS are Tertiary hospitals (previously three). Maybe they have upgraded St John Midland & Country Health Service to Tertiary status.

Also, if you plan to return to home state to intern none of this WA allocation is a concern to you.


Hard to say. Me being WA local I'd choose UWA since my (wealthy) aunt told me not to rush into the busy worklife. You from interstate, an extra year costs $30k extra HECS + living expenses. Are you happy to spend $30k to get one more "easy" year at uni?

Thank you so much as always for the reply. I've decided to let go of prestige as a decision making factor, and focus more on the practical side of things like course length and medicine from day 1, and am hence leading towards Curtin. However, I want to make sure that my future career won't be negatively affected by attending Curtin before I make the final choice.

Curtin's admissions guide says "Students will have the opportunity to undertake clinical placements at St John of God Midland Public Hospital, Royal Perth Hospital, Fiona Stanley Hospital, Peel Health Campus and other hospitals, as well as general practice clinics across the state and rural medical settings."

While Royal Perth and Fiona Stanley are mentioned, I don't think it's a coincidence that they've put St John of God Midland first on the list and I think this where I will be doing most of my clinical placements (If any current Curtin students are reading this, could you please confirm this?) The below article supports this assumption:

Curtin opens new campus in the heart of historic Midland | News at Curtin

Curtin University has officially opened its new Midland Campus, which will act as a base for fourth and fifth-year Curtin Medical School students, as well a ...

news.curtin.edu.au

"Curtin University has today officially opened its new Midland Campus, which will act as a base for Curtin Medical School students in their fourth and fifth year of study as well as other health sciences students."

If as a result of doing most clinical placements in Midland I am more likely to also do my internship & residency at St John of God Midland or other outer-metropolitan tertiary hospitals like Joondalup Health Campus (which got added to the PEHS list, there are 6 now!), how does this affect my chances of entering competitive specialties like dermatology or surgery as compared to doing your internship & residency at city based prestigious hospitals like Royal Perth, Fiona Stanley and St Charles Gairdner? If senior doctors like hpfanfiction or chinaski could provide input on this, I would really appreciate it.

Also, as I haven't completely ruled out UWA as an option yet, I want to ask this question: the UWA website says "In year 3, 25% of UWA MD students undertake their studies in a Western Australian rural setting, being places in hospitals and general practices from Esperance to Kununurra. Rural students complete the same curriculum as the urban students, but in a longitudinal and integrated clinical setting."

How do they choose the 25% who will undertake their clinical placements rurally? If the whole point of going UWA is because you can do your clinical placements at RPH, Fiona Stanley and St Charles Gairdner making you more likely to become an intern there in the future, and yet you are sent to a rural location for your clinical placements, then I think UWA has lost a major advantage over Curtin. I know Adelaide does a random ballot if places are not filled voluntarily.

And finally, another thing that draws me to Curtin is the fact that all 110 students are tightly knit from Year 1 until graduation through PBL and things like that. Do the 145 Assured Pathway into Medicine kids stick together and become close during the biomedical science degree A1 ? (Perhaps teaming up for group assignments and things like that?) I know USYD has a Combined Medicine Association where the provisional entry kids stick together during their undergraduate years, and was wondering if UWA had a similar culture.

Thank you..!

 

[matcha.latte]

If the whole point of going UWA is because you can do your clinical placements at RPH, Fiona Stanley and St Charles Gairdner

Not sure when they opened the option up, but Curtin students are now able to go on placement at Charlie’s - a few of my mates are there now.

How do they choose the 25% who will undertake their clinical placements rurally?

I can’t speak for UWA, but Curtin also does this - It’s an entirely voluntary program and very competitive (i.e - you submit a written application, get interviewed, and then offered a spot from your choice of preferences). These placements are run through the Rural Clinical School, which is also affiliated with UWA - so it’s possible that the entry requirements are the same.

 

[TheWhiteKnight]

If as a result of doing most clinical placements in Midland I am more likely to also do my internship & residency at St John of God Midland or other outer-metropolitan tertiary hospitals like Joondalup Health Campus (which got added to the PEHS list, there are 6 now!), how does this affect my chances of entering competitive specialties like dermatology or surgery as compared to doing your internship & residency at city based prestigious hospitals like Royal Perth, Fiona Stanley and St Charles Gairdner?

Clinical experience is only one of the several areas they assess when you apply to a speciality training program. As long as the you do your internship/postgraduate training in a hospital with a ward that you wish to specialise in and you elect to do a rotation in one of these wards then I think this clinical exposure will be generally a start for your application.
The only thing I think UWA really have over Curtin in respect to the more competitive specialities is the research component of the degree. With it being a MD degree (as oppose to MBBS), you will learn research skills and will have to conduct a research project usually in the final year of your degree. That research could potentially lead to a publication or several publications which is something most specialty colleges will look favourably at especially if the published research is related to the speciality you are applying for. For dermatology, I know publication and your research profile is one of the domains they look at in your application. However, if you go to Curtin and take the MBBS path, there is always the option to undertake additional degrees (e.g. MPH, MPhil) to showcase your research/publication interest.

 

[A1]

Clinical experience is only one of the several areas they assess when you apply to a speciality training program.

I don't think ucat3300+ meant the relevance of clinical experience during the med course. Their concern is what if they were to intern at outer-metro or regional hospitals without sufficent exposure to the specialties they might want to pursue.

While Royal Perth and Fiona Stanley are mentioned, I don't think it's a coincidence that they've put St John of God Midland first on the list

Curtin students will still do some rotations at Royal Perth, Fiona Stanley, and Charlie according to @ Latte, but these are minority shared with UWA & Notre Dame. You're right Curtin will likely do more time at St John Midland (smallish 370-bed vs the others 600-800).

EtA: I remember reading in a Curtin Admission Guide, it says something like applicants are advised of Curtin's aim to train doctors for outer-metro/regional areas. I think that clause serves as a future disclaimer IN CASE it turns out Curtin graduates are less favoured for the major metro hospitals.

How do they choose the 25% who will undertake their clinical placements rurally?

All UWA students do one rural rotation. You have to apply to be in this 25% doing the whole MD3 year rurally and I hear not every applicant gets it. It's popular because (I guess) they get a year of UWA-arranged accom + subsidised transport, saving them a year's rent if they study in Perth away from home.

Do the 145 Assured Pathway into Medicine kids stick together and become close during the biomedical science degree @A1 ?

I stick together with a group ~20 provisionals, but hardly mix with the 60 graduate-entry when we join them at MD2. Because by then we scatter all over with clinical rotations.

 

[TKAO]

Thank you so much as always for the reply. I've decided to let go of prestige as a decision making factor, and focus more on the practical side of things like course length and medicine from day 1, and am hence leading towards Curtin. However, I want to make sure that my future career won't be negatively affected by attending Curtin before I make the final choice.

Curtin's admissions guide says "Students will have the opportunity to undertake clinical placements at St John of God Midland Public Hospital, Royal Perth Hospital, Fiona Stanley Hospital, Peel Health Campus and other hospitals, as well as general practice clinics across the state and rural medical settings."

While Royal Perth and Fiona Stanley are mentioned, I don't think it's a coincidence that they've put St John of God Midland first on the list and I think this where I will be doing most of my clinical placements (If any current Curtin students are reading this, could you please confirm this?) The below article supports this assumption:

Curtin opens new campus in the heart of historic Midland | News at Curtin

Curtin University has officially opened its new Midland Campus, which will act as a base for fourth and fifth-year Curtin Medical School students, as well a ...

news.curtin.edu.au

"Curtin University has today officially opened its new Midland Campus, which will act as a base for Curtin Medical School students in their fourth and fifth year of study as well as other health sciences students."

If as a result of doing most clinical placements in Midland I am more likely to also do my internship & residency at St John of God Midland or other outer-metropolitan tertiary hospitals like Joondalup Health Campus (which got added to the PEHS list, there are 6 now!), how does this affect my chances of entering competitive specialties like dermatology or surgery as compared to doing your internship & residency at city based prestigious hospitals like Royal Perth, Fiona Stanley and St Charles Gairdner? If senior doctors like hpfanfiction or chinaski could provide input on this, I would really appreciate it.

Also, as I haven't completely ruled out UWA as an option yet, I want to ask this question: the UWA website says "In year 3, 25% of UWA MD students undertake their studies in a Western Australian rural setting, being places in hospitals and general practices from Esperance to Kununurra. Rural students complete the same curriculum as the urban students, but in a longitudinal and integrated clinical setting."

How do they choose the 25% who will undertake their clinical placements rurally? If the whole point of going UWA is because you can do your clinical placements at RPH, Fiona Stanley and St Charles Gairdner making you more likely to become an intern there in the future, and yet you are sent to a rural location for your clinical placements, then I think UWA has lost a major advantage over Curtin. I know Adelaide does a random ballot if places are not filled voluntarily.

And finally, another thing that draws me to Curtin is the fact that all 110 students are tightly knit from Year 1 until graduation through PBL and things like that. Do the 145 Assured Pathway into Medicine kids stick together and become close during the biomedical science degree A1 ? (Perhaps teaming up for group assignments and things like that?) I know USYD has a Combined Medicine Association where the provisional entry kids stick together during their undergraduate years, and was wondering if UWA had a similar culture.

Thank you..!

Unlike A1 I would say that it is a bit of an overstatement to rely on the idea that the bachelor of biomedical science students are tightly knit with each other. You are more likely to become close with the people you stay with in your dorm than the biomed students imho. The bachelor of biomed classes offer very few in person contact hours and you aren't necessarily interacting with the same people every time either. Speaking as a MD1 imscp student, I think that point is moot, and the reason you stick with the provisional students is only because you might know them for longer, have similar ages/life experience and maybe not go out of your way to build bridges with people outside of that circle because you get comfortable with what you know. To be honest, I think that if you wanted to be forced to meet people and make friends that way, Curtin offers more contact hours with group setting emphasis being placed much much earlier on, thus potentially making it easier to make friends. Not to mention smaller cohort sizes. Note that this isn't guaranteed to help you make friends either, I had one friend take a gap year so that they could try their luck in the friend game (amongst other things) in the cohort below in Curtin. Once again, this all depends on the way you make friends? I guess? I'd wager that sticking with big groups of friends from med sci is the exception rather than the rule in my experience.

Something you may not have considered is that UWA IMSCP 1st and 2nd years and MD1 are very similar to each other (in the first half-ish), and honestly right now it feels like I'm re-covering things I've already learnt. This may be either a waste of time or fantastic revision depending on your take on it. Is it worth taking on that extra year for that? You can do electives and potentially exchange overseas during your bachelors (screw you covid) - does that hold any value to you?

Something else you might not have considered is that UWA's MD allows you to elect to complete (amongst other things) either half of a masters degree in MPH (that you can finish off later), or do research integrated into your MD. How functional either of these options is, I'm not sure, A1 will have to answer that.

Other things to consider: UWA's commute times on the highway (from where I live) and parking situation is absolute ass compared to Curtin's. Parking is a dream. Housing situations tend to be a bit cheaper near Curtin. UWA has proximity to Charlies and PCH and several medical research institutes. This may or may not be useful to you but it has been rather convenient for me. Curtin starts clinical stuff and history taking from the get go, UWA you piss about doing 'medical science' for 2 years with very little feel for its applicability to anything. UWA's overall social life, clubs etc. are far more robust than Curtins but nothing technically bars you from joining them as a Curtin student (I think?).

Teaching quality wise, A1 will have to comment on that.

Having gotten both offers several years ago, and Curtin vs. UWA sitting 15 minutes vs. 1 hour by public transport, I do wonder whether I made the right decision... and whether I would have made the same decision if I could rewind the clock knowing what I know now.

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Something else you might not have considered is that UWA's MD allows you to elect to complete (amongst other things) either half of a masters degree in MPH (that you can finish off later), or do research integrated into your MD. How functional either of these options is, I'm not sure, A1 will have to answer that.

I’m in a 5 year MBBS and can do both of these things if I choose, so it’s possible Curtin facilitate this, too. matcha.latte may be able to comment.

 

[matcha.latte]

I’m in a 5 year MBBS and can do both of these things if I choose, so it’s possible Curtin facilitate this, too. @matcha.latte may be able to comment.

Unsure about the MPH, but Curtin will be introducing the optional BMedSci (Hons) year, I believe in the next year or two (iirc they hoped to have it running by 2023).
From Y3 onwards, there are some placement periods that you can choose to spend doing research.