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Choosing Between Universities and Offers

Home state: SA
Offer 1: Adelaide Dent 5yrs
Offer 2: UQ Med (Bonded) 7yrs
Any scholarships offered: Nil
Any accommodation secured: Not yet
Internship location preference: SA (if possible)
Other important information: All set to go to Adel dent but received an unexpected med offer from UQ today. Need to accept by 21/2

SOOO tough and just don’t know what to do.

Thanks for any opinions :)
 
Home state: SA
Offer 1: Adelaide Dent 5yrs
Offer 2: UQ Med (Bonded) 7yrs
Any scholarships offered: Nil
Any accommodation secured: Not yet
Internship location preference: SA (if possible)
Other important information: All set to go to Adel dent but received an unexpected med offer from UQ today. Need to accept by 21/2

SOOO tough and just don’t know what to do.

Thanks for any opinions :)
Do you want to do med or dent? That is the only real question in this debate.
 
Thanks TKAO.

tbh med was higher than dent in my preferences across all TAC's. However, i did more research into dent since my Adel offer and prepared and happy to start dent in my home state.

The 'leaving home' and 'comfort zone' factors are weighing heavily on my mind. I guess many of you here have experienced or recently been thru these similar feelings/thoughts/decision.

i have few more days to ponder and discuss further with my family.

p.s are there anyone moving from SA to start Med this cohort?
 
Thanks TKAO.

tbh med was higher than dent in my preferences across all TAC's. However, i did more research into dent since my Adel offer and prepared and happy to start dent in my home state.

The 'leaving home' and 'comfort zone' factors are weighing heavily on my mind. I guess many of you here have experienced or recently been thru these similar feelings/thoughts/decision.

i have few more days to ponder and discuss further with my family.

p.s are there anyone moving from SA to start Med this cohort?

Home state: SA
Offer 1: Adelaide Dent 5yrs
Offer 2: UQ Med (Bonded) 7yrs
Any scholarships offered: Nil
Any accommodation secured: Not yet
Internship location preference: SA (if possible)
Other important information: All set to go to Adel dent but received an unexpected med offer from UQ today. Need to accept by 21/2

SOOO tough and just don’t know what to do.

Thanks for any opinions :)


There are a few things you need to think about when going down the dent path:

- It requires more manual dexterity than medicine (not including the surgical specialties). Most dent students will be fine, but there is a small minority of students who fail every piratical assessment.
- Dentists normally retire at an earlier age than physicians. Normally in their late 50s or early 60s. However, if you want to work after retirement, you can become a demonstrator or a lecturer. There is a shortage of them.
- Dental tourism is becoming popular since dent is not covered by medicare, especially for certain procedures such as dental implants.
- I would say at least 1/3 of dental students are med rejects. You'll have less prestige compared to medical students and doctors.
- You may need to work in a rural place for a few years after graduation if you want to start with a high paying full time job.
- You're more likely to develop back, neck and wrist pain as a dentist. That being said, a lot of GPs are also having similar problems because they sit in front of a PC all day.
- Some of your patients may think you're overcharging or scamming them when you recommend expensive treatments.
- You won't get paid when you do your specialty training.
- Dentistry is more repetitive than most medical specialties including general medicine.


I'm not suggesting you not to pick dentistry, you just need to have a good understanding of the profession. There are also a lot of advantages of becoming a dentist:

- It requires less memorisation. You'll primary focus on the head and neck region. You'll learn about other parts of the body and systemic diseases, but it's nothing compared what med students have to go through. A lot of your lecturers will tell you to understand the content, but at the end of the day, you just have memorise them.
-Even if you work in a public dental clinic, you'll probably earn more than a doctor until they become a fully qualified GP or consultant/specialist which can take 5 to 20 years depending on the specialty. As a private dentist, you'll probably make as much as a private GP if you do CPDs.
-There is no national qualification exams in Australia. You become a fully qualified dentist when you graduate from your dental school. It will also make you less vulnerable to workplace politics (I guess?).
-Most of your patients will respect you and appreciate what you do for them. Acute dental pain is among the worst pain someone can experience.
-Most dental diseases can be treated.
-You don't have to deal with a lot of uncertainties. You may like this if you're a risk-averse person.
 
There are a few things you need to think about when going down the dent path:

- It requires more manual dexterity than medicine (not including the surgical specialties). Most dent students will be fine, but there is a small minority of students who fail every piratical assessment.
- Dentists normally retire at an earlier age than physicians. Normally in their late 50s or early 60s. However, if you want to work after retirement, you can become a demonstrator or a lecturer. There is a shortage of them.
- Dental tourism is becoming popular since dent is not covered by medicare, especially for certain procedures such as dental implants.
- I would say at least 1/3 of dental students are med rejects. You'll have less prestige compared to medical students and doctors.
- You may need to work in a rural place for a few years after graduation if you want to start with a high paying full time job.
- You're more likely to develop back, neck and wrist pain as a dentist. That being said, a lot of GPs are also having similar problems because they sit in front of a PC all day.
- Some of your patients may think you're overcharging or scamming them when you recommend expensive treatments.
- You won't get paid when you do your specialty training.
- Dentistry is more repetitive than most medical specialties including general medicine.


I'm not suggesting you not to pick dentistry, you just need to have a good understanding of the profession. There are also a lot of advantages of becoming a dentist:

- It requires less memorisation. You'll primary focus on the head and neck region. You'll learn about other parts of the body and systemic diseases, but it's nothing compared what med students have to go through. A lot of your lecturers will tell you to understand the content, but at the end of the day, you just have memorise them.
-Even if you work in a public dental clinic, you'll probably earn more than a doctor until they become a fully qualified GP or consultant/specialist which can take 5 to 20 years depending on the specialty. As a private dentist, you'll probably make as much as a private GP if you do CPDs.
-There is no national qualification exams in Australia. You become a fully qualified dentist when you graduate from your dental school. It will also make you less vulnerable to workplace politics (I guess?).
-Most of your patients will respect you and appreciate what you do for them. Acute dental pain is among the worst pain someone can experience.
-Most dental diseases can be treated.
-You don't have to deal with a lot of uncertainties. You may like this if you're a risk-averse person.
Thank you soo much UnluckyDude. Appreciate you taking the time out to share your feedback.

Wishing everyone here great success and living out your dreams.
 
Thanks TKAO.

tbh med was higher than dent in my preferences across all TAC's. However, i did more research into dent since my Adel offer and prepared and happy to start dent in my home state.

The 'leaving home' and 'comfort zone' factors are weighing heavily on my mind. I guess many of you here have experienced or recently been thru these similar feelings/thoughts/decision.

i have few more days to ponder and discuss further with my family.

p.s are there anyone moving from SA to start Med this cohort?
Hey mate, a tough decision I'm sure. I'm moving from NSW to WA this year to begin a Bachelor of Biomedical Science with provisional entry to the Doctor of Medicine at UWA. (Massive thanks to everyone here who helped me make the decision A1 chinaski matcha.latte TheWhiteKnight TKAO LMG! dotwingz Caffeine)

I am cautious to give advice of this sort - please take everything I say with a grain of salt. This is just my perspective, which will most likely be very different to how you view life, and other things.

I think the question you're struggling to answer is "How much do I want to study medicine? Is it worth the sacrifice of having to leave behind family and move interstate?"

There is no doubt you still prefer medicine over dentistry, otherwise you wouldn't have posted your question at all. Although you might prefer medicine to a lesser degree over dentistry now, because you accepted that you were going to Adelaide dentistry and become a dentist for a long time, you did a lot of research into dentistry, and the UQ Medicine offer just came through unexpectedly.

I think you should ask yourself, "If I got a super late top-up offer from Adelaide Medicine, will I go?" If the answer is yes, then it is my personal opinion that you should go UQ Med.

My reasoning is that you are not alone in making the decision to move interstate to study medicine, and I think you were willing to do so when you made an application to QTAC and sat the interview for UQ Med. (Or did you do interstate interviews only as practice for the Adelaide med interview with no intention of going?)

I know only one person who only applied to UNSW Medicine - not even WSU or UoN, let alone interstate. He got an offer from UNSW Medicine, but not everyone can be as lucky as him. Everyone else I know applied everywhere, and I I have lots of friends who moved interstate for medicine - mostly UQ, some Griffith, and one in UAdel. I think moving interstate to pursue medicine is a possibility every medical school applicant in Australia has to face.

The next question is that this is a bonded offer. Now this is a tough question, and is an area in which I am terribly unqualified to give advice in, as I have not researched the bonded medical place agreement to the level I would have if I received a bonded offer and had to make a decision. To my understanding, bonded is tough. You have a 3 year return of service obligation, and from what I've read on MSO, it's hard to decide when to complete the 3 year return of service - if you do it straight out of med school, it means you can't do your internship & residency at large metropolitan tertiary hospitals (which some say is beneficial for your future career, some say it doesn't matter, but it definitely won't negatively affect your future career, whereas doing your internship & residency at a rural location might. Of course, doing your internship & residency at a rural location might not negatively affect your future career at all - I have no idea). If you do it once you've completed your specialty training, you are most likely married with kids - your spouse might find it difficult to find a job in such a rural location, and you might want to send your kids to school at a metropolitan location. This is why a lot of people buy their way out of a BMP by paying around $300k, although this post says "Buying your way out of it is less of an option than it used to be. It's not a choice at all."

I recommend reading this MSO thread and official government websites to find out more about the BMP agreement.

But if I were in your position, I reckon I'd still go UQ Med Bonded. Yes, bonded is not ideal, but med is med, and you'll still be a doctor. I guess we spend at least 30 years working - 3 years is a long time, but 27 years is even longer. Ask yourself, "If this was an unbonded offer, would I go?" If the answer is yes, then I would take the bonded.

Those are my thoughts as someone who is neither a doctor nor a medical student, but as someone who has thought about this kind of stuff a fair bit. Hope this helps, and whichever decision you make, remember that the more research you do, the more thought you put into this and the more number of people (friends & family) you talk to about this, the less likely you are to regret your decision in the future.
 
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mvn if you’re torn re. UQ and having to move at such short notice, I’d also investigate how much of your chosen undergraduate degree is going to be delivered online. You may find you have more time to organise a physical move than you think as you may be able to establish a timetable that allows you to do semester 1 (and possibly even year 1) online. It’s not the greatest introduction to uni life, but could be a useful compromise in your situation and you’ll still have 6.5 more years to make the most of campus or college living so you won’t be missing out completely.
 
Excellent point LMG!!

Just looked it up and the all the courses that are necessary (SCIE1000, CHEM1100, BIOL1020) or popular (PHYS1171, MATH1051, NEUR1020) for 1st sem Biomed students are offered online this sem!

Even the sem 2 subjects compulsory (STAT1201, BIOL1040) or popular (MICR2000, CHEM1200) are going to be offer externally

That gives you up to at least 12 months to prepare a move OP.
 
Home state: SA
Offer 1: Adelaide Dent 5yrs
Offer 2: UQ Med (Bonded) 7yrs
Any scholarships offered: Nil
Any accommodation secured: Not yet
Internship location preference: SA (if possible)
Other important information: All set to go to Adel dent but received an unexpected med offer from UQ today. Need to accept by 21/2

SOOO tough and just don’t know what to do.

Thanks for any opinions :)
There is another option for you to think about. Since you have prepared to study UAdel dent, you may have a try to see if dent is for you and defer UQ med. In the meantime, you can still apply UAdel med via tertiary transfer for next year.

Excellent point LMG!!

Just looked it up and the all the courses that are necessary (SCIE1000, CHEM1100, BIOL1020) or popular (PHYS1171, MATH1051, NEUR1020) for 1st sem Biomed students are offered online this sem!

Even the sem 2 subjects compulsory (STAT1201, BIOL1040) or popular (MICR2000, CHEM1200) are going to be offer externally

That gives you up to at least 12 months to prepare a move OP.
Does 1st yr Biomed have workshops and practical sessions apart from the lectures?
 
There is another option for you to think about. Since you have prepared to study UAdel dent, you may have a try to see if dent is for you and defer UQ med. In the meantime, you can still apply UAdel med via tertiary transfer for next year.


Does 1st yr Biomed have workshops and practical sessions apart from the lectures?
I don’t think you can defer UQ Med to start a different tertiary degree, but that could be worth a double check.

And if a unit is offered externally or as a wholly online alternative (which Dotwingz has indicated is the case), then any workshops etc would have to be facilitated via the same means.
 
Does 1st yr Biomed have workshops and practical sessions apart from the lectures?

Yeah. They try to simulate labs but usually it just ends up as busy work. I can say for certain that in person labs are about a million times better. OP will be lacking practical skills but I can say for certain by experience that it’s very easy to catch up, especially given the tutors are understanding given how many people doing uni online.
 
Yeah. They try to simulate labs but usually it just ends up as busy work. I can say for certain that in person labs are about a million times better. OP will be lacking practical skills but I can say for certain by experience that it’s very easy to catch up, especially given the tutors are understanding given how many people doing uni online.
I actually found my online neuroanatomy labs in third year were far better and more useful to me than my in-person ones had been. They were more structured, and I was much less left to my own devices to figure out what I was doing (which had been the case with the in-person labs). I had classmates that thought similarly, and others that hated the online versions. I think this could potentially be a thing that varies from person to person as opposed to a categorically negative experience.
 
I don’t think you can defer UQ Med to start a different tertiary degree, but that could be worth a double check.
Do you mean UQ med doesn't allow you to defer if you want to start a tertiary degree elsewhere? I've seen many people defer interstate offers and start a degree locally, then reapply a local med program for next year. Maybe UQ med is different to those unis?
 
Hey mate, a tough decision I'm sure. I'm moving from NSW to WA this year to begin a Bachelor of Biomedical Science with provisional entry to the Doctor of Medicine at UWA. (Massive thanks to everyone here who helped me make the decision A1 chinaski matcha.latte TheWhiteKnight TKAO LMG! dotwingz Caffeine)

I am cautious to give advice of this sort - please take everything I say with a grain of salt. This is just my perspective, which will most likely be very different to how you view life, and other things.

I think the question you're struggling to answer is "How much do I want to study medicine? Is it worth the sacrifice of having to leave behind family and move interstate?"

There is no doubt you still prefer medicine over dentistry, otherwise you wouldn't have posted your question at all. Although you might prefer medicine to a lesser degree over dentistry now, because you accepted that you were going to Adelaide dentistry and become a dentist for a long time, you did a lot of research into dentistry, and the UQ Medicine offer just came through unexpectedly.

I think you should ask yourself, "If I got a super late top-up offer from Adelaide Medicine, will I go?" If the answer is yes, then it is my personal opinion that you should go UQ Med.

My reasoning is that you are not alone in making the decision to move interstate to study medicine, and I think you were willing to do so when you made an application to QTAC and sat the interview for UQ Med. (Or did you do interstate interviews only as practice for the Adelaide med interview with no intention of going?)

I know only one person who only applied to UNSW Medicine - not even WSU or UoN, let alone interstate. He got an offer from UNSW Medicine, but not everyone can be as lucky as him. Everyone else I know applied everywhere, and I I have lots of friends who moved interstate for medicine - mostly UQ, some Griffith, and one in UAdel. I think moving interstate to pursue medicine is a possibility every medical school applicant in Australia has to face.

The next question is that this is a bonded offer. Now this is a tough question, and is an area in which I am terribly unqualified to give advice in, as I have not researched the bonded medical place agreement to the level I would have if I received a bonded offer and had to make a decision. To my understanding, bonded is tough. You have a 3 year return of service obligation, and from what I've read on MSO, it's hard to decide when to complete the 3 year return of service - if you do it straight out of med school, it means you can't do your internship & residency at large metropolitan tertiary hospitals (which some say is beneficial for your future career, some say it doesn't matter, but it definitely won't negatively affect your future career, whereas doing your internship & residency at a rural location might. Of course, doing your internship & residency at a rural location might not negatively affect your future career at all - I have no idea). If you do it once you've completed your specialty training, you are most likely married with kids - your spouse might find it difficult to find a job in such a rural location, and you might want to send your kids to school at a metropolitan location. This is why a lot of people buy their way out of a BMP by paying around $300k, although this post says "Buying your way out of it is less of an option than it used to be. It's not a choice at all."

I recommend reading this MSO thread and official government websites to find out more about the BMP agreement.

But if I were in your position, I reckon I'd still go UQ Med Bonded. Yes, bonded is not ideal, but med is med, and you'll still be a doctor. I guess we spend at least 30 years working - 3 years is a long time, but 27 years is even longer. Ask yourself, "If this was an unbonded offer, would I go?" If the answer is yes, then I would take the bonded.

Those are my thoughts as someone who is neither a doctor nor a medical student, but as someone who has thought about this kind of stuff a fair bit. Hope this helps, and whichever decision you make, remember that the more research you do, the more thought you put into this and the more number of people (friends & family) you talk to about this, the less likely you are to regret your decision in the future.
Hello ucat3300+,

Congrats on your admission to UWA!!
Thank You for your detailed feedback which I truly and sincerely grateful.
During the application and interview process, I was prepared to move interstate for med.
The only offer I received until yesterday was Adel dent so dent was pretty much locked in.
Yes - I would seriously consider Adel med offer if miracle exists.
I asked myself the same questions in your reply many many times and the one I seemed to struggle with the most is “…..leave family/friends behind and move interstate“.
Moving from high school to uni is a big jump and now with the added pressure of living away from home. Maybe it is hitting home now that I’m simply not ready to move away from my bubble and comfort zone just yet.

Thank you again and best wishes with your study ucat3300+.

Do you mean UQ med doesn't allow you to defer if you want to start a tertiary degree elsewhere? I've seen many people defer interstate offers and start a degree locally, then reapply a local med program for next year. Maybe UQ med is different to those unis?
This is in an email I received from UQ as part of the offer.


Deferring your offer

If you wish to defer your 2022 offer, please do so via QTAC. Deferment is permitted for a period of one year only, and during this period you are not permitted to study in bachelor level programs at any other institution. When enrolments for 2023 open in November 2022, you will then be required to contact UQ Admissions through [email protected] to provide your first degree choice.

I think Tomato is suggesting mvn can choose UQ Dent as the undergraduate degree for the provisional entry into medicine. UQ used to allow this but I don't know if they have changed the rules. But unfortunately, the UCAT and atar cut-offs for dent are higher than those of med this year because of the med interviews. I'm not sure if mvg is eligible for it.






I was mainly talking about med school vs dent school and general dentists vs GPs. I could be wrong but I would assume that dentists focus on the oral cavity while doctors need to know about the entire body. For example, dentists only need to know how liver problems affect oral health, dental procedures and the medications (relatively limited) used in dentistry. And also probably the oral manifestations of liver diseases. I guess doctors need to know how it affect other organ systems like the CV, digestive, skeletal and nervous systems.
From UQ regarding first undergraduate course selection.

  • Dental Science -There are no remaining places for the 2022 intake. Please do not nominate Dental Science as your first degree, it will be rejected and you will need to submit an alternative.
 
Where am I at?

im currently leaning towards Adel dent because:

Family and home state factor
Personal mental and emotional state
If desire for med still flickering, sit ucat again (95% percentile in 2021 but of course no certainty to improve) and try tertiary transfer / non standard
Start undergrad course
Praying for a miracle - last minute Adel med top-up offer (wishful thinking I know)

It be strange to reject a med offer but I’m sure I’m not the first and will not be the last. Will reject UQ as soon as practical so it can go to someone else.
 
It be strange to reject a med offer
I suggest you defer UQ Med rather than reject. It's no harm to anyone yet gives you an option - who knows if 2-3 weeks into the Dent course you change your mind you can withdraw with a clean sheet and still be eligible for UQ.

I'm moving from NSW to WA this year to begin a Bachelor of Biomedical Science with provisional entry to the Doctor of Medicine at UWA. (Massive thanks to everyone here who helped me make the decision
I think it was mostly me who steered you toward UWA.
So my apology in advance if it later turns out a terrible choice 😂
 
I suggest you defer UQ Med rather than reject. It's no harm to anyone yet gives you an option - who knows if 2-3 weeks into the Dent course you change your mind you can withdraw with a clean sheet and still be eligible for UQ.


I think it was mostly me who steered you toward UWA.
So my apology in advance if it later turns out a terrible choice 😂
Hi A1,

It (defer) was definitely top of my mind but UQ policy is quite strict. Not sure how they would check though.

Deferring your offer

If you wish to defer your 2022 offer, please do so via QTAC. Deferment is permitted for a period of one year only, and during this period you are not permitted to study in bachelor level programs at any other institution. When enrolments for 2023 open in November 2022, you will then be required to contact UQ Admissions through [email protected] to provide your first degree choice.
 
Excellent point LMG!!

Just looked it up and the all the courses that are necessary (SCIE1000, CHEM1100, BIOL1020) or popular (PHYS1171, MATH1051, NEUR1020) for 1st sem Biomed students are offered online this sem!

Even the sem 2 subjects compulsory (STAT1201, BIOL1040) or popular (MICR2000, CHEM1200) are going to be offer externally

That gives you up to at least 12 months to prepare a move OP.
Where can I check how each courses are being offered? e.g online

First undergrade course - BSc or Biomed?

Just checking out all options before final call/decision (closing doors).

Once again, Thank you for all the great input and help.
 
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