Choosing Between Universities and Offers

[ar456]

Couple more things I'd like to know if anyone has some info:
1. I assume courses like Adelaide med and UNSW med aren't considered provisional - even though you have to complete the Bachelor of Medical Science/studies to progress as part of it. Could someone confirm this?
2. I'm not that well-informed about the internship process. Do hospitals preference students from unis that are closer or is it just based on uni performance? For example, if I hypothetically went to UNSW, would I be more likely to get an internship near the Sydney CBD (assuming I preference it highest) compared to if I went to JMP Newcastle? Or is it just based on how I did academically, and my preferences?

 

[ucat3300+]

Yeah, no. It may mean something to you personally, but you're projecting if you think doctors (or university grads in general) form their identity around their alma mater. If a doctor nominates their med school in their post nominals (and I don't think this is as common as you think), be aware that they are trading on perceived prestige to a public who don't know any better. Professionally speaking, if your old med school is one of the more notable things about you professionally, quite frankly you're lacking in more relevant and impressive things to mention.

Thanks very much for this insight. I would counter by arguing that many physicians who have reached the top of their fields (e.g., university professors) lists their alma mater on their profile. In these cases I don't think it is just to appeal to unknowing members of the public, they do it because it holds some meaning within professional circles as well. But I understand your point that this is such an insignificant part of their profile compared to their other achievements, and I certainly don't hope to become a doctor whose most impressive line on his resume is which medical school he went to.

Bear in mind, also: half of Australia's medical schools are now graduate entry, and as such enrol students who already hold degrees from universities other than the uni they attend for med school. As an alma mater of three universities myself, I feel no connection or bond to any of them. Similarly, I don't know any of my colleagues who feel that way either.

This is very understandable.

It absolutely doesn’t in general. You have to decide if it matters to you (and be honest about that), and also recognise that prestige is utterly your own perception. Just coz you think it’s prestigious doesn’t mean everyone else will. I certainly don’t.

I fully agree with these points - I can't wait until I graduate med school and enter the workforce so the idea that prestige doesn't matter fully sinks in. I also agree that in the end this is a deeply personal matter and to some people prestige and association with their alma mater will always be a part of their identity. Each to their own.

Also, I understand how in Australian medicine prestige plays little role, but you can't possibly deny that in general, and around the world (especially in the US), prestige is a huge factor in deciding which uni to go to - how else do you explain the competitiveness of getting into Ivy League schools, or the much higher cutoff for Harvard Medical School compared to other med schools. Also why do world university rankings exist if prestige didn't matter, and why do universities obsess over climbing the rank each year to put it on their website if people didn't care..

Sometimes I think people who keep referring to prestige and doubting whether it matters (even despite being told that it doesn't) actually want it to matter. Why else do we keep circling back to this issue?

Maybe you are right

 

[0mikron]

Home state: QLD
Offer 1: UNE JMP (bonded)
Offer 2: University of Adelaide (bonded)
Offer 3: JCU Cairns (bonded)
Any scholarships offered: None
Any accommodation secured: Nope
Internship location preference: NSW
Other important information:

So currently UNE seems the best out of the three, mainly because I would like to work in NSW. Thought to ask MSO though in case there are any factors to consider...

If I go to the other two, would that severely diminish my chances of working in NSW long term?

Additionally, I am half expecting an unbonded Adelaide/Flinders offer in subsequent rounds, so if this is thrown into the mix, what advice would you all give?

Thank you in advance.

 

[ucat3300+]

1. I assume courses like Adelaide med and UNSW med aren't considered provisional - even though you have to complete the Bachelor of Medical Science/studies to progress as part of it. Could someone confirm this?
2. I'm not that well-informed about the internship process. Do hospitals preference students from unis that are closer or is it just based on uni performance? For example, if I hypothetically went to UNSW, would I be more likely to get an internship near the Sydney CBD (assuming I preference it highest) compared to if I went to JMP Newcastle? Or is it just based on how I did academically, and my preferences?

1. Yes they are not provisional it's just how the degree is named.
2. Each state is different. For NSW which med school you went to doesn't matter at all, nor do your grades. It's a random allocation done by a computer that tries to maximise the number of people getting their first preferences, and there's this really cool post on MSO that explains why you should put your actual first preference as #2 to get it

 

[ucat3300+]

Additionally, I am half expecting an unbonded Adelaide/Flinders offer in subsequent rounds, so if this is thrown into the mix, what advice would you all give?

Don't JMP also upgrade bonded to unbonded in later rounds?

 

[0mikron]

Don't JMP also upgrade bonded to unbonded in later rounds?

Unlikely for me, I've asked them directly.

 

[dotwingz]

University prestige absolutely doesn’t matter.

However the fact that you continue to believe it does makes me believe you’re looking for someone to agree with you.

If you want to attend a university because of its prestige that’s fine. It doesn’t make you an evil or immature individual by wanting to go to go to a university that makes you feel better about yourself and your accomplishments.

Otoh you shouldn’t be justifying your decisions with make believe “advantages”, just settle on the fact that you chose a uni that makes you look better to some, not give you any tangible advantage.

 

[A1]

If I go to the other two, would that severely diminish my chances of working in NSW long term?

You can always apply for a NSW job on graduation or later. If for a NSW internship you're likely to get a hospital network not sought by the higher-priority NSW grads (you know what that means). A post-intern RMO job is more level-playing but I think you're still disadvantaged to those working closer to it.

My relative did JCU, interned somewhere up north then got a PGY3 job in Adelaide.

Additionally, I am half expecting an unbonded Adelaide/Flinders offer in subsequent rounds, so if this is thrown into the mix, what advice would you all give?

Very high chances Adelaide 1st round bonded will get upgraded to unbonded. I remember one year *all* 1st round bonded were upgraded because some 2nd round offers were unbonded (i.e. after all the upgrades Adelaide still had unbonded to give to 2nd round).

If so it probably makes sense to prefer Adelaide unbonded over bonded others.

 

[0mikron]

You can always apply for a NSW job on graduation or later. If for a NSW internship you're likely to get a hospital network not sought by the higher-priority NSW grads (you know what that means). If for a post-intern RMO job it's more level-playing but I think you're still disadvantaged to those working closer to it.

My relative did JCU, interned somewhere up north then got a PGY3 job in Adelaide.


Very high chances Adelaide 1st round bonded will get upgraded to unbonded. I remember one year *all* 1st round bonded were upgraded because some 2nd round offers were unbonded (i.e. after all the upgrades Adelaide still had unbonded to give to 2nd round).

If so it probably makes sense to prefer Adelaide unbonded over bonded others.

Right thanks A1.

So my dilemma now is trying to decide if a Sydney NSW internship is worth being bonded versus unbonded Adelaide.

Also, I've heard that Adelaide uni isn't the most desirable as if you fail an exam you repeat the semester rather than resitting (not verified). Do you have any thoughts on this as this can be a significant quality of life deterrent, compared to UNE's pass/fail system.

 

[A1]

Also, I've heard that Adelaide uni isn't the most desirable as if you fail an exam you repeat the semester rather than resitting (not verified). Do you have any thoughts on this as this can be a significant quality of life deterrent, compared to UNE's pass/fail system.

I have to pass on this one. Hopefully a current Adelaide student can help answer. ucatboy do you know anyone?

 

[chinaski]

Thanks very much for this insight. I would counter by arguing that many physicians who have reached the top of their fields (e.g., university professors) lists their alma mater on their profile. In these cases I don't think it is just to appeal to unknowing members of the public, they do it because it holds some meaning within professional circles as well.

As someone who actually moves in those circles, let me assure you that one's alma mater is not a notable or admirable quality, professionally speaking. Those of us in academia may name drop where we went to school in our university bio, but that, again, is largely a marketing tool used by the university (which literally trades on the perception of prestige), rather than a reflection of its professional weight (or lack thereof).

 

[A1]

1. I assume courses like Adelaide med and UNSW med aren't considered provisional - even though you have to complete the Bachelor of Medical Science/studies to progress as part of it. Could someone confirm this?

For general info there are different types of undergrad+MD structure around:

- The GAMSAT MD schools are graduate entry, applicants need an undergrad degree (from any uni) + GAMSAT. Some of them pre-offer graduate-entry MD spots to school leavers called provisional, example USyd UMelb UQ Griffith Flinders UWA.

- The "imitation" MD schools were undergrad schools that basically renamed/split their MBBS to BMed+MD (for prestige, who says prestige doesn't matter ). They don't admit external Bachelors into their MD, has to be their BMed+MD together. Example UNSW Monash JMP WSU Adelaide.

- Monash also has a graduate-entry school but these graduate students go into 2nd year of the BMed+MD not directly to MD (so different to the 1st type above), and selfishly only for Monash graduates (again different to the 1st type).

 

[ar456]

University prestige absolutely doesn’t matter.

However the fact that you continue to believe it does makes me believe you’re looking for someone to agree with you.

If you want to attend a university because of its prestige that’s fine. It doesn’t make you an evil or immature individual by wanting to go to go to a university that makes you feel better about yourself and your accomplishments.

Otoh you shouldn’t be justifying your decisions with make believe “advantages”, just settle on the fact that you chose a uni that makes you look better to some, not give you any tangible advantage.

Fair point. I think prestige can refer to many things, I was interested in whether prestige affects the internship process to see if there is a tangible advantage, but I realize not.

 

[ar456]

Will studying med in NSW have a greater chance of getting internship back in QLD than studying in SA or is it the same? I'm happy to be placed anywhere, but would choose QLD if I could.

 

[A1]

Will studying med in NSW have a greater chance of getting internship back in QLD than studying in SA or is it the same?

Practically the same since both NSW and SA are considered interstate by Qld internship allocation.

 

[ar456]

You seem to be really good at interviews seeing you got offers from both JMP and Adelaide (I did interviews at both & got rejected from both). If I were in your shoes, I would do the UNSW interview (and you say that you got accommodation sorted for UNSW) and take the unbonded UNSW offer if you get it. Absolutely zero disadvantages, academically, getting a late offer as an interstate, you'll still be starting Feb 13 with the rest of the cohort.

Right, will have to reconsider now since just got a Monash interview offer basically a day after unsw (prefer monash over unsw). Thanks for your input though! Any advice on going for both or sacrificing one to concentrate on the other?

 

[A1]

Right, will have to reconsider now since just got a Monash interview offer basically a day after unsw (prefer monash over unsw). Thanks for your input though! Any advice on going for both or sacrificing one to concentrate on the other?

Looks like someone is going to get Monash and ditch the rest
I've just browsed back this time last year you were panicking about doing gap year and here we are... offers coming out of your ears.
(Others please note not everyone will be successful the same)

I was given UNSW interview on a Friday and Monash on Monday, with the weekend break we made it comfortably. Two consecutive days is challenging, you need to request a morning with UNSW, fly to Melb afternoon/evening. I would try to do both since you're still not convinced about JMP/Adelaide.

 

[ThunderDragon]

Right, will have to reconsider now since just got a Monash interview offer basically a day after unsw (prefer monash over unsw). Thanks for your input though! Any advice on going for both or sacrificing one to concentrate on the other?

If it is consecutive, it's up to you. Do you rly want both Monash and UNSW? If so, it might be worth the tiring travel. If you prefer Monash, then it might be better to just go for Monash and put your full focus and energy into it instead of being tired from UNSW. Up to you at the end of the day.

 

[ucat3300+]

Right, will have to reconsider now since just got a Monash interview offer basically a day after unsw (prefer monash over unsw). Thanks for your input though! Any advice on going for both or sacrificing one to concentrate on the other?

I couldn’t comment, all of my interviews were online last year.

Looks like someone is going to get Monash and ditch the rest
I've just browsed back this time last year you were panicking about doing gap year and here we are... offers coming out of your ears.

Haha ikr, so happy for you ar456 !! Go get that Monash offer!!

If you prefer Monash, then it might be better to just go for Monash and put your full focus and energy into it instead of being tired from UNSW.

This is what first came to my mind as well. On the other hand, despite your amazing track record of smashing interviews, there are no guarantees in medical school interviews which is why the general advice is to cast your net wide. If you prefer UNSW over Adelaide, might be worth doing both interviews as A1 suggested. Tough decision.

 

[ucat3300+]

I thought I'd have to come a little earlier for orientation, like a week earlier?

You’ll just miss out on free UNSW labelled water bottles, tote bags, etc. Not that big of a deal imo. You can also go in your second year and get those lol