Common pitfalls to avoid for year 12 school leavers and other medicine applicants

[Crow]

Hi all,

On the topic of finding a Plan B, I'm a gap-year student thinking about back up plans. I'm just wondering what you guys think about doing a uq science degree first (with intention of getting into med, exploring different parts of science that I'm interested in) and then applying for a two-year master (or doctor at some unis) of physio course if I don't get into med. That way, significant time really isn't lost and I'm pursuing something I enjoy with decent employability. Although, as Mana and others said earlier, it could be better to go straight to physio - yet my concern is whether physio/allied health degrees are truly less competitive/easier to do well in. For example, I spoke to some physio students at UQ who wanted to get into med, and they mentioned not many people go through from physio.

Thanks again in advance for all your help guys!

As LMG! has said, it's very reasonable to do an undergrad like science knowing in advance that you will need to pursue further study in a vocational degree. However, in my opinion, it's not reasonable to do this solely for the purpose of trying to achieve better marks or under the belief that science will be "easier" than physio to score well in as many believe.

All degrees come with their challenges and all people have different strengths and weaknesses within their chosen fields of study.

If physio is truly your back-up to medicine, then I think you should just study physio. For the record, there are hundreds of graduate entry medical students in Australia currently who did physio as an undergrad - it's a very common pathway and very achievable, much like any other undergraduate to graduate entry medicine pathway.

 

[ar456]

As LMG! has said, it's very reasonable to do an undergrad like science knowing in advance that you will need to pursue further study in a vocational degree. However, in my opinion, it's not reasonable to do this solely for the purpose of trying to achieve better marks or under the belief that science will be "easier" than physio to score well in as many believe.

All degrees come with their challenges and all people have different strengths and weaknesses within their chosen fields of study.

If physio is truly your back-up to medicine, then I think you should just study physio. For the record, there are hundreds of graduate entry medical students in Australia currently who did physio as an undergrad - it's a very common pathway and very achievable, much like any other undergraduate to graduate entry medicine pathway.

While marks are a factor, I guess I also want to use science as an opportunity to look at different interests that might appeal to me. It could also open up other avenues after. In other words, while physio rn seems like my best back up, I'm not closing myself off to other backup degrees that could become of interest later...

Also does time, specifically the fact that physio courses are 4 years and I've already taken a gap year (so 9 years till graduating med) become a major consideration?

 

[DrDrLMG!]

While marks are a factor, I guess I also want to use science as an opportunity to look at different interests that might appeal to me. It could also open up other avenues after. In other words, while physio rn seems like my best back up, I'm not closing myself off to other backup degrees that could become of interest later...

Also does time, specifically the fact that physio courses are 4 years and I've already taken a gap year (so 9 years till graduating med) become a major consideration?

Time is really not a factor from an age point of view in my opinion (as someone who did Med as a very mature aged student, I can confirm it hasn’t been a negative factor during the degree and has in fact probably been helpful due to life experience and communication skills), but it can be a factor for financial reasons and that’s only something you can know.

If you’re not 100% set on a backup degree (which is very reasonable at this stage), then doing a general degree to get a feel for things is a useful option. Again, I’m speaking from experience as someone who did a very general initial undergrad as I was undecided between three pathways (psychology, law, journalism) and it facilitated trying all three out before narrowing down my selection.

Did you pull out of physio because you weren’t enjoying it? Or just because you decided on a gap year and the few weeks of study you’d done weren’t really a factor?

 

[ar456]

Time is really not a factor from an age point of view in my opinion (as someone who did Med as a very mature aged student, I can confirm it hasn’t been a negative factor during the degree and has in fact probably been helpful due to life experience and communication skills), but it can be a factor for financial reasons and that’s only something you can know.

If you’re not 100% set on a backup degree (which is very reasonable at this stage), then doing a general degree to get a feel for things is a useful option. Again, I’m speaking from experience as someone who did a very general initial undergrad as I was undecided between three pathways (psychology, law, journalism) and it facilitated trying all three out before narrowing down my selection.

Did you pull out of physio because you weren’t enjoying it? Or just because you decided on a gap year and the few weeks of study you’d done weren’t really a factor?

I pulled out of physio almost entirely because of the gap year. But at the same time, I didn't really enjoy it as much as I expected in the few weeks I was in the program (small sample size I guess).

Also, when you say, "general degree", are you meaning like science, etc.?

Thanks again!

 

[DrDrLMG!]

I pulled out of physio almost entirely because of the gap year. But at the same time, I didn't really enjoy it as much as I expected in the few weeks I was in the program (small sample size I guess).

Also, when you say, "general degree", are you meaning like science, etc.?

Thanks again!

I did a BA but yeah, BSc is in a similar vein with regard to the way I was using that terminology.

The benefit of the general degree and a masters (which is effectively what I did BA - hons - post grad) is that the post grad part can be quite varied. For example, you could use a BSc to get into Physio, Psychology, Speech Path, Occupational Therapy, Dietetics to name just a few in the allied health sector. Whereas a more specific degree narrows your focus immediately. Both have their pros and cons, but if you enter a general degree knowing you’re likely to need to do additional study then I think it’s actually a really flexible option, particularly for those who are keen to try a few things.

 

[ar456]

I did a BA but yeah, BSc is in a similar vein with regard to the way I was using that terminology.

The benefit of the general degree and a masters (which is effectively what I did BA - hons - post grad) is that the post grad part can be quite varied. For example, you could use a BSc to get into Physio, Psychology, Speech Path, Occupational Therapy, Dietetics to name just a few in the allied health sector. Whereas a more specific degree narrows your focus immediately. Both have their pros and cons, but if you enter a general degree knowing you’re likely to need to do additional study then I think it’s actually a really flexible option, particularly for those who are keen to try a few things.

Makes sense, thanks.

Also, do you know how competitive it is to get into post grad additional study- like are the general chances quite decent? Or it very much varied dependent on the program?

Sorry for all the qs...

 

[2xq]

Makes sense, thanks.

Also, do you know how competitive it is to get into post grad additional study- like are the general chances quite decent? Or it very much varied dependent on the program?

Sorry for all the qs...

The competitiveness of post-graduate additional studies will definitely vary by program.

For e.g. USYD's Masters of Diagnostic Radiography is super competitive requiring around a 6.5+ to be considered very competitive for a spot. There is another issue in that there are very few CSP (Commonwealth Supported Place) spots available requiring 7.0 GPA (if not, close to 7.0). Every other spot is a DFFP (Domestic Full-Fee Place).

 

[ar456]

The competitiveness of post-graduate additional studies will definitely vary by program.

For e.g. USYD's Masters of Diagnostic Radiography is super competitive requiring around a 6.5+ to be considered very competitive for a spot. There is another issue in that there are very few CSP (Commonwealth Supported Place) spots available requiring 7.0 GPA (if not, close to 7.0). Every other spot is a DFFP (Domestic Full-Fee Place).

Do you know where to find this sort of data for the other post-grad options as well?

This is my main concern with BSc I guess - the risk involved on not getting into a post-grad course I like after a BSc... and then being stuck with nothing...

 

[LeSpicyGinger]

Do you know where to find this sort of data for the other post-grad options as well?

This is my main concern with BSc I guess - the risk involved on not getting into a post-grad course I like after a BSc... and then being stuck with nothing...

You can call up Universities or look up their website for the specific courses. I know Flinders postgrad tends to have 6+ GPA requirements as well.

Do you know what specific interests in the sciences appeal to you? I agree that you have plenty of time to figure out what you want to do but if you're interests are nonspecific then I'd say go with the physio option. You can volunteer or work in the areas in science on the side to explore those avenues. If you decide those options are what you're interested in, you can probably internal transfer into them with your GPA or ATAR. As anecdotal evidence, I know people who graduated with a Bsci without figuring out what exactly they wanted to do and I'm personally reluctant to sink ~20-30k into HECS just to not figure that out (assuming you don't have specific interests you want to explore).

 

[ar456]

You can call up Universities or look up their website for the specific courses. I know Flinders postgrad tends to have 6+ GPA requirements as well.

Do you know what specific interests in the sciences appeal to you? I agree that you have plenty of time to figure out what you want to do but if you're interests are nonspecific then I'd say go with the physio option. You can volunteer or work in the areas in science on the side to explore those avenues. If you decide those options are what you're interested in, you can probably internal transfer into them with your GPA or ATAR. As anecdotal evidence, I know people who graduated with a Bsci without figuring out what exactly they wanted to do and I'm personally reluctant to sink ~20-30k into HECS just to not figure that out (assuming you don't have specific interests you want to explore).

Thanks... I'm generally interested in Biochem but these interests aren't really fully fleshed out yet. My thinking was that a BSc will allow me to find further interests with volunteering/work on the side, instead of physio (which I'm also not 100% set on either) ... Also, does internal transfer typically come with higher fees?

 

[ucat3300+]

I'm just wondering what you guys think about doing a uq science degree first (with intention of getting into med, exploring different parts of science that I'm interested in) and then applying for a two-year master (or doctor at some unis) of physio course if I don't get into med. That way, significant time really isn't lost and I'm pursuing something I enjoy with decent employability.

This sounds like a pretty solid plan to me. I just finished first year of medical science at UWA (with provisional entry into MD) and my experience tells me that you can get a pretty good taste of what the foundational theory part of medicine is like through a BSc. If you can load up on things like biochemistry, immunology, microbiology, pathology, pharmacology, anatomy, physiology, then you're basically learning what med students are learning in their first year, before they hit the clinical stuff.

So far, I've thoroughly enjoyed studying medical science and I know I'll at least enjoy the foundational theory part of medicine.

Whereas with physiotherapy I'm sure you'll get really good at anatomy and physiology but I don't imagine you'll be doing much of biochemistry, immunology, microbiology etc. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

If your intention is getting into medicine then your plan allows you to get a taste of what the foundational theory part of medicine is like, be surrounded by like-minded people who also want to get into medicine (study buddies for GAMSAT? who knows - I know a few people at UWA doing postgrad med after doing a BSc at UQ, they said it's a stressful environment because of the fierce competition but still being in that environment where everyone's gunning for MD might help). If it doesn't work out, you can do your back up plan of physiotherapist, I think it's great because it's only 2 years and significant time isn't lost as you say. And you're not locking yourself into a career as a physiotherapist from the get go (of course you can do Bachelor of physio and do MD but you know what I mean)

 

[ar456]

This sounds like a pretty solid plan to me. I just finished first year of medical science at UWA (with provisional entry into MD) and my experience tells me that you can get a pretty good taste of what the foundational theory part of medicine is like through a BSc. If you can load up on things like biochemistry, immunology, microbiology, pathology, pharmacology, anatomy, physiology, then you're basically learning what med students are learning in their first year, before they hit the clinical stuff.

So far, I've thoroughly enjoyed studying medical science and I know I'll at least enjoy the foundational theory part of medicine.

Whereas with physiotherapy I'm sure you'll get really good at anatomy and physiology but I don't imagine you'll be doing much of biochemistry, immunology, microbiology etc. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

If your intention is getting into medicine then your plan allows you to get a taste of what the foundational theory part of medicine is like, be surrounded by like-minded people who also want to get into medicine (study buddies for GAMSAT? who knows - I know a few people at UWA doing postgrad med after doing a BSc at UQ, they said it's a stressful environment because of the fierce competition but still being in that environment where everyone's gunning for MD might help). If it doesn't work out, you can do your back up plan of physiotherapist, I think it's great because it's only 2 years and significant time isn't lost as you say. And you're not locking yourself into a career as a physiotherapist from the get go (of course you can do Bachelor of physio and do MD but you know what I mean)

Thanks for sharing your experience ucat3300, very useful! Also, just to factor some other considerations, just wondering if you or anyone else knows if internal transfer is associated with higher fees and is generally something you'd recommend as a back-up if one option goes downhill or I see an opportunity elsewhere?

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Thanks for sharing your experience ucat3300, very useful! Also, just to factor some other considerations, just wondering if you or anyone else knows if internal transfer is associated with higher fees and is generally something you'd recommend as a back-up if one option goes downhill or I see an opportunity elsewhere?

What do you mean by higher fees? Do you mean, if you get an internal transfer from one degree into that Uni’s Med degree (ie. at UNSW, UAdel, Monash, Curtin - not all necessarily called internal transfer but effectively that) your fees for the Med degree will be FFP?

Not that I’m aware of. All offer CSPs (and bonded CSPs) to those successful in transferring.

 

[LeSpicyGinger]

Thanks for sharing your experience ucat3300, very useful! Also, just to factor some other considerations, just wondering if you or anyone else knows if internal transfer is associated with higher fees and is generally something you'd recommend as a back-up if one option goes downhill or I see an opportunity elsewhere?

If you’re referring to the internal transfer I was talking about, then there’s no fees associated with it generally unless you were applying for transfer to a different institution than you were initially studying at in which case it’s about paying for the QTAC, SATAC, UAC etc. fee

Internal transfer is a process I know a lot of uni students take advantage of and is basically like trying a year of a degree. E.g. in your case you could do 1 year physio and then decide it’s not for you and transfer into bsci the next year with your GPA. Some of your subjects may be transferable so you may be able to get credit and reduce your study load but if it’s something completely different you may have to start from year 1. You can basically internal transfer into anything if you have the gpa except med, dent and certain attached honours courses (at Flinders anyway).

 

[ar456]

If you’re referring to the internal transfer I was talking about, then there’s no fees associated with it generally unless you were applying for transfer to a different institution than you were initially studying at in which case it’s about paying for the QTAC, SATAC, UAC etc. fee

Internal transfer is a process I know a lot of uni students take advantage of and is basically like trying a year of a degree. E.g. in your case you could do 1 year physio and then decide it’s not for you and transfer into bsci the next year with your GPA. Some of your subjects may be transferable so you may be able to get credit and reduce your study load but if it’s something completely different you may have to start from year 1. You can basically internal transfer into anything if you have the gpa except med, dent and certain attached honours courses (at Flinders anyway).

Ahh, I see... thanks.

Also do postgrad degrees (e.g., allied health after doing BSc) mostly have domestic full fee-paying spots like the USYD's Masters of Diagnostic Radiography as mentioned above or that just an exception due to the high competition?

 

[2xq]

Ahh, I see... thanks.

Also do postgrad degrees (e.g., allied health after doing BSc) mostly have domestic full fee-paying spots like the USYD's Masters of Diagnostic Radiography as mentioned above or that just an exception due to the high competition?

The amount of CSP and DFFPs are not affected by competition.
The point I made before is that in order to secure a CSP (where these are limited), you will likely need to be one of the top-ranked applicants. As such, don't be caught out or surprised later on if you do end up gaining a DFFP should you do apply later on after your undergraduate degree.

 

[LeSpicyGinger]

Ahh, I see... thanks.

Also do postgrad degrees (e.g., allied health after doing BSc) mostly have domestic full fee-paying spots like the USYD's Masters of Diagnostic Radiography as mentioned above or that just an exception due to the high competition?

I know the number of CSPs for postgraduate positions is quite limited in Flinders. Some competitive courses such as Speech Pathology have 20 CSP spots from what I remember for postgrad while undergrad was 43 places for 2022 entry.

 

[ar456]

Also, is there any merit in doing biomed over BSc as undergrad courses? Is one more competitive than the other? Does one advantage a candidate more than the other in terms of graduate med chances and having more options afterwards?

 

[dotwingz]

No to all above.

There's no reason to do a biomedical science course when the university offers a bachelor of science with a biomedical major.

I cant think of a single university that doesn't offer both.

 

[ar456]

No to all above.

There's no reason to do a biomedical science course when the university offers a bachelor of science with a biomedical major.

I cant think of a single university that doesn't offer both.

Any tips/advice on how to go about choosing between the two as a back up?