Science gives more flexibility while medical science is very specific. It gives you pretty much almost no advantage in admissions if you do medical science vs science.
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Common pitfalls to avoid for year 12 school leavers and other medicine applicants
- Thread starter Mana
- Start date
Just a heads up that your description of the nursing and physiotherapy degrees is also a description of a medical degree (you may know this already but just in case…).
DamnThatsCrazy
Member
How can GPAs be competitive if youre not being ranked?
DamnThatsCrazy
Member
for example the atar is competitive because you are being ranked whereas GPA youre not so if you consistently get a High Distinction youre guaranteed a 7 GPA. no? (correct me if im wrong) so the whole cohort can get a 7 GPA whereas in atar there is a limited amount of 99.95s its not possible for everyone to get a 99.95
Right, In a strict sense you are right.
But, I think Mana would be talking about the general competitiveness of a course. Typically universities review grade distributions in a course to make sure not too many / not too few people are getting 7's as not to devalue it. If you take a biomedicine course where people are all sweating for higher GPA's, it would probably be more demanding than other degrees. This was my experience at UQ, not sure how it translates elsewhere.
My experience in biomedicine was that the faculty had no problem stacking on all these extra exams assignments and classes, and basically being very blasé about the whole student experience because they knew students would take those courses in droves anyways. Compare it to the other faculties where they were much nicer to students.
But, I think Mana would be talking about the general competitiveness of a course. Typically universities review grade distributions in a course to make sure not too many / not too few people are getting 7's as not to devalue it. If you take a biomedicine course where people are all sweating for higher GPA's, it would probably be more demanding than other degrees. This was my experience at UQ, not sure how it translates elsewhere.
My experience in biomedicine was that the faculty had no problem stacking on all these extra exams assignments and classes, and basically being very blasé about the whole student experience because they knew students would take those courses in droves anyways. Compare it to the other faculties where they were much nicer to students.
Some courses grade on a curve (at least my undergrad was graded on a curve). This definitely made it stupidly competitive. Not sure how common curves are these days.
AnubisHorus&Ra
Regular Member
I wouldn't call GPAs a 'rank' per se, but, don't forget that the people marking yours grades and assignments are human too. If they see two pretty good papers, they might rank both a six, but if they see a stella 7 paper and then see one of the aforementioned papers, it might turn into a high 5 instead. There are also going to be professors who, unfortunately, are also biased, hangry or have favourites and will rank one person higher on the sole basis of liking them better. So, it's not a 'rank' in the logical sense, but more akin to a comparison? Dotwingz was absolutely correct, not everyone can score a 7. It'll spark more ethical hogwash than it's worth.
Put it this way, a 7 is easy to get only in 3 situations: 1) You've completed the course before and are repeating it with experience. e.g. I could go back to my original degree and re-sit every exam and assignment and score infinitely better now. or 2) The degree you've picked is hyper-focused on your strengths. e.g. a degree with only assignments for someone who writes professional reports, a skilled mathematician sitting a mathematics degree or 3) You pick the most ridiculous degree with only 3 or 4 people and top the class e.g. Bachelor of Paranomal Science of Surf Performance or Turf Management etc.
You've been pretty concerns about GPA across several threads now. If you're concerned that you'll lose your ATAR if you start a degree, you can always take a gap year. Alternatively, pick a university that takes 50/50 GPA and ATAR in first year. The transition to University is (in my humble opinion) not overly sharp (exlucding dentistry, optometry, physio, double degrees and medicine). You have time on your side to do the work even if you work on the side. Regardless, by 2nd year of uni, your ATAR unfortunately, basically becomes naught.
AMMDSRGN
Member
Hi everyone, I am currently in High School and a student who wants to have a career in Medicine. I tried the UCAT this year but got in the 50th percentile. I spent time researching what was my best option as an Undergraduate degree to do in order to get into medicine but found out you can do any degree and try for medicine. However I really like the field of science and proposed I should do a bachelor of medical science, or biomedical science. I was thinking about bachelor of pharmacy/master of pharmacy at UNSW but that takes a lot of time to finish and will ultimately waste crucial time. Can anyone please advise that should I just do Medical science and then try to get into med. Predicited Atar (I know it dosent work) is around 85 - 94.
When you say you’re in high school, do you mean you’re a year 12 school leaver looking for tertiary options for next year?
AMMDSRGN
Member
Yes i am currently in year 12, and getting into tertiary next year, sorry about that.
There’s nothing wrong with biomed but the question remains what you would do with it after graduation if you don’t get into med.
Pharmacy degrees are typically 4 years vs biomed 3 years. Honestly it doesn’t seem to be wasting crucial time for an extra year, especially considering you can apply to non standard schools in this time
Pharmacy degrees are typically 4 years vs biomed 3 years. Honestly it doesn’t seem to be wasting crucial time for an extra year, especially considering you can apply to non standard schools in this time
Adding to what dotwingz has said, and referring to your comments about time only…
Keep in mind that the 3 year BioMed undergrad isn’t a career degree. In the absolute vast majority of cases, in order to be employable post this undergrad you need to do an honours year +/- masters/phd OR you’d need to use your bio med GPA for applications into graduate courses like Med, Dent, Physio, teaching etc etc etc.
On the other hand, pharmacy is a contained career degree in its own right with a defined pathway.
Both are great options for different people but it’s important not to make your decisions based on information that misses the bigger picture.
Keep in mind that the 3 year BioMed undergrad isn’t a career degree. In the absolute vast majority of cases, in order to be employable post this undergrad you need to do an honours year +/- masters/phd OR you’d need to use your bio med GPA for applications into graduate courses like Med, Dent, Physio, teaching etc etc etc.
On the other hand, pharmacy is a contained career degree in its own right with a defined pathway.
Both are great options for different people but it’s important not to make your decisions based on information that misses the bigger picture.
AMMDSRGN
Member
Could you please elaborate on applying to non-standard schools. I am unaware of this.
I was looking at Notre Dame's biomedical science priorty pathway degree as i got an early offer for it. As you said, biomed has no assured career, but my fixed goal is getting into medicine ultimately. Would this degree have any advantage over other medical science, biomed degrees in the contexts of giving me a better chance at Notre Dame's doctor of medicine course?
Having a “fixed goal” is all well and good but it isn’t a guarantee. ~15000 people sit UCAT every year and there are ~1500 undergrad/non-standard spots. I’m not sure how many people sit GAMSAT, but the spots on offer for graduates are similar.
You’re young and have plenty of time to try things and change your mind (hey, I changed my mind and did med in my 30s!! I’m definitely not here to say you have to decide right now as a school leaver what you want to do!).
I definitely think you need to do a bit more investigating around the different options and pathways. Given your ATAR/UCAT combo is unfortunately far from competitive, and med is your “fixed goal” it’s surprising you don’t know about non-standard entry. The straightest path to med (yr 12 —> direct entry) is the least common in Aus.
It’s good you’re here at MSO and asking questions.
Non-standard Medicine Entry
Hey guys! Thought I'd create a thread for us uni students who are hoping to do med next year. As we're a minority, it'd be good for us to have a space to ask questions about applications and stuff. To my understanding, the only undergraduate universities that take non-school leavers are: - UNSW...
medstudentsonline.com.au
AMMDSRGN
Member
Thank you DRDRLMG! for answering my questions.
Ohhh I though non-standard entry was something else, but yes i did know about the undergrad option to med. Initially i was going to try for that but unfortunately my marks led me to go and try for postgraduate medicine.
Do you know anything about Notre Dame's biomedical science priorty pathway and if it is unique in any way to other biomed degrees?
Ohhh I though non-standard entry was something else, but yes i did know about the undergrad option to med. Initially i was going to try for that but unfortunately my marks led me to go and try for postgraduate medicine.
Do you know anything about Notre Dame's biomedical science priorty pathway and if it is unique in any way to other biomed degrees?
You don't have any marks yet that would be relevant for some of the non-standard entry degrees... I'm not sure why you're ruling this out already. Have you decided UCAT just isn't for you? (Potentially fair enough given your result, it just may not tap into your strengths).
No, I have no idea.
Unfortunately there are more people with “fixed goals” of med school than there are places in medical school, and to be brutally honest you are not even close to getting in as it stands. There stands an extremely large cohort of students in front of you in line. You will have to move a lot up the curve to be competitive, which I obviously believe in you and anyone else to do.
The non standard schools allow non high school-leavers non-graduates, undergraduates to enter.
Notre Dame’s program is not unique. It’s a classic grift by universities across the country. MQ does something similar, as does Bond, and UNSW.
There is no easy cheat code into medicine unfortunately.
Do a degree which would be worthwhile medicine or not, do great in it, and hopefully you never have to use it again. But it’s worth the singular year extra, which really isn’t extra and doesn’t stop you from applying to lots of non-standard schools JMP WSU JCU etc, to save you many years of catching up time you wasted.
The non standard schools allow non high school-leavers non-graduates, undergraduates to enter.
Notre Dame’s program is not unique. It’s a classic grift by universities across the country. MQ does something similar, as does Bond, and UNSW.
There is no easy cheat code into medicine unfortunately.
Do a degree which would be worthwhile medicine or not, do great in it, and hopefully you never have to use it again. But it’s worth the singular year extra, which really isn’t extra and doesn’t stop you from applying to lots of non-standard schools JMP WSU JCU etc, to save you many years of catching up time you wasted.
AMMDSRGN
Member
Thank you dotwingz and DRDRLMG!,
From the above Q&A i will further research to degrees that have better job opportunities if unfortunately becoming a docotor is out of my reach.
Right now, I am actually unsure that doing the UCAT next year, will the universities look at my ATAR or my GPA, or is it university specific? For the UCAT i believe i can do better hopefully as i only studied for one month.
From the above Q&A i will further research to degrees that have better job opportunities if unfortunately becoming a docotor is out of my reach.
Right now, I am actually unsure that doing the UCAT next year, will the universities look at my ATAR or my GPA, or is it university specific? For the UCAT i believe i can do better hopefully as i only studied for one month.
