interlakenswizz
Member
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[Undergrad] High School Discussion Thread
- Thread starter IntoTheFire
- Start date
I wouldn't say you need an A+ for a 90+ ATAR - I did the HSC and got a 99.00 with a 97, 95, 92, 91, 89 in the HSC. Only one of those I would consider A+ material. The rest mid to low A's and a B+. I guess it depends on certificate youre doing but if its the HSC you can def set your sights lower, especially because marks are normalised so for example with 3U maths a score of 97 only needs around ~90% in an exam. I would assume 95%+ in any exam consistently is good enough for medicine, I cant really think of any leaving certificate which requires higher.
The recommendation to not do biomed is 'not to do biomed as a stepping stone to medicine' - if you are genuinely interesting in biology and chemistry and willing to pursue a biomed related career (largely academic), its not the worst choice you can make. However as someone who does biomed (partially - paired it with another major) I can't really recommend it. I would recommend thinking career wise of what draws you to medicine and then think of related careers (e.g. is it the science? why not engineering. the helping people aspect? why not nursing. the sitting in a dark room all night because you want to be a radiologist? try computer science)
The recommendation to not do biomed is 'not to do biomed as a stepping stone to medicine' - if you are genuinely interesting in biology and chemistry and willing to pursue a biomed related career (largely academic), its not the worst choice you can make. However as someone who does biomed (partially - paired it with another major) I can't really recommend it. I would recommend thinking career wise of what draws you to medicine and then think of related careers (e.g. is it the science? why not engineering. the helping people aspect? why not nursing. the sitting in a dark room all night because you want to be a radiologist? try computer science)
anna.arkadyevna
Member
a little bit of hope
(i couldn't find the make a new thread button so i've decided to post here, but,,mods/admins etc pls feel free to move this if i've stuffed up)
i told myself i would write a post like this if and when i got into medicine, because as a struggling high school student, i would have done anything to read a post like this. so here it is, the story of how i managed to get an unbonded (+non-erc) spot in monash medicine, in a bit of an unconventional way.
also sorry but this will probably be long; brevity was never my strength. do note that this is a throwaway account, and that i won't be answering any questions that could reveal my identity,,because im shy hahah
i'll start from the beginning; as a kid, i loved (and excelled at) school. in primary school, i remember being that kid who used to go into older years' classrooms to pick a takehome reader book, and be that pretentious show-off who could answer times tables faster than the teacher. somewhere along the way though, when school got harder and people got smarter, i lost that spark. i knew, from back in year 7 that i wanted to get into medicine. i remember going to open days in year 8 and making a beeline from the med faculty, pretending to be a year 10 student so people would take me seriously, and asking questions about admission requirements, recommended vce subjects, how to ace the ucat (umat at the time). somewhere in year 9 i got completely burnt out. i had worked myself to exhaustion in years 7 and 8, and was sleeping something like 5 hours a night. i even got hospitalised because my immune system was ridiculously compromised, and my biggest worry at the time was "i've missed a term of school, how will i pass my exams?". in short, not a headspace you want to be in as a 14 year old. instead of that being a wakeup call for myself, my parents or my school, i just spiralled from there. schoolwork got harder in year 10, and my peers started stepping up their game too. where once i had sailed through school without much of an effort, i now hit a learning curve in most of my subjects; putting in hours of work felt futile because i wasn't getting the marks i used to. i was also struggling with friendships, sexuality and mental health, and by year 11, i had a worryingly low attendance rate and had dropped out of one of my two 3/4 accelerated subjects. year 12 sucked the soul out of me, and i remember being absolutely apathetic about my final exams, knowing i had no chance in hell of getting into medicine with my abysmal ucat score and just a mediocre grasp on half my vce subjects. i ended up graduating that year with an atar in the high 90s - i was surprised that it was almost close enough to have been competitive, and even more surprised that i had managed a score like that while being plagued with depression and PTSD.
the summer holidays saw me change my preferences almost daily, mindlessly cycling through science, arts, commerce, law, PPE, biomedicine. it felt like a sick game, a punishment. my scores were close, but not close enough; i was told that i was good, but clearly not good enough. my dream was just that - a dream. i couldn't envision myself doing three or four years of a course about which i was indifferent. as someone who is intrinsically purpose-driven, i had to be working towards something that had an end product that meant something to me, i needed that clarity. i talked to careers counsellors, older cousins, friends of friends in various fields. in the end, i came to the conslusion that medicine was still what i wanted to do, and so if there was no other choice, i'd try for the graduate pathway. however there was still one glimmer of hope for my undergrad med dream - i had heard of someone who had a good atar, who had taken a gap year and redone the umat, and gotten into medicine that way. i was opposed to this idea at first, thinking firstly that i didn't want to base my entire year off on this one 2 hour test (ucat), and that even if i did get in, i would still feel like a bit of a fraud, given i didn't get in on my first shot. eventually, i reasoned that i'd give myself a chance - one year wouldn't be a lot, in the scheme of things, and i felt that i had it in me to do well in the ucat - an exam for which i had barely studied in the previous year. putting some more thought into it, i wondered whether i could redo any of my vce subjects, to bump up my atar just a little, and make me a more competitive applicant. i found an institution through which this was an option, and decided to sign up to do two new subjects, during this "gap year" of sorts.
at this point, i was terrified. i didn't know of anyone who had taken a pathway like this, couldn't decide whether or not i was "cheating the system", didn't know whether this was a morally just option. in the end, i realised that this pathway was available to anyone who was game enough to take it, and told myself to stop beating myself up for allowing myself another chance. depression makes you self-sabotage and question yourself a lot. ha ha ha. so the year went on, and i studied hard for the ucat, putting in hours and hours a day for many months. my hard work paid off, rewarding me with a score around the ~98th percentile. i was thrilled. i remember this being the turning point for me, the moment i believed that hey perhaps my dream wasn't out of reach after all, that maybe hard work truly could pay off. so i worked hard again for exams, and managed to bump up my atar a little - not a lot, but enough to make it properly competitive. i still struggled majorly with my mental health in this year, i was severely depressed, almost suicidal. i was wondering whether or not to put in a SEAS application - would they think i was weak? would the endemic mental health crisis in physicians make them less likely to admit me into medicine? was medicine no longer the right course for me given i had such severe mental illness myself? i ended up trusting my gut and putting in a SEAS application, and applying to schools all over the country, hoping to god that it wouldn't ruin my chances. but soon, i was scoring interviews left right and centre, and it truly felt like a dream come true. to have even made it to this point, where i was getting interview offers seemed surreal - if you had told me i'd be here a year ago, i wouldn't have believed you. so then, i worked hard to prepare for interviews, and got a few offers. what a relief. an unbonded spot in monash medicine? i n c r e d i b l e. just insane. i did that. me!
there is a lot of skepticism out there for taking a gap year to redo the ucat, or to redo/do more year 12 subjects. i scoured the internet for opinions, testimonials, and didn't find many that endorsed this pathway. my advice to anyone in a similar situation i was in, is to trust your gut, and to trust yourself. you, and only you, know what you're capable of, you know the situation you're in better than any stranger on the internet, and only you can muster up the self-belief, the discipline and the bloody hard work to get yourself where you want to be. vce was never my thing, i hated my school and didn't love my subjects. i didn't get any scores above 45; hell, even one of my scores didn't get scaled above 40, but i'm still here. i'm just hoping this story can maybe inspire someone to keep going and hold onto dreams. and please, if you're struggling with your mental health, reach out for help. finding one person who cares about you, be it counsellor, friend, psych or mentor, makes a world of difference.
i think this is a post as much for me as it is for you guys, to reflect back on my journey, and have some semblance of pride to see how far i've come. i'm still trying to believe that i deserve this spot as much as anyone else, that i truly deserve to be here. imposter syndrome is a b*tch. it was tough, extremely tough at times, but it taught me to back myself, trust the process, and hold onto hope. i'm happy to respond to comments or pms, although i'm not sure how frequently i'll be checking my inbox. all the best x
(i couldn't find the make a new thread button so i've decided to post here, but,,mods/admins etc pls feel free to move this if i've stuffed up)
i told myself i would write a post like this if and when i got into medicine, because as a struggling high school student, i would have done anything to read a post like this. so here it is, the story of how i managed to get an unbonded (+non-erc) spot in monash medicine, in a bit of an unconventional way.
also sorry but this will probably be long; brevity was never my strength. do note that this is a throwaway account, and that i won't be answering any questions that could reveal my identity,,because im shy hahah
i'll start from the beginning; as a kid, i loved (and excelled at) school. in primary school, i remember being that kid who used to go into older years' classrooms to pick a takehome reader book, and be that pretentious show-off who could answer times tables faster than the teacher. somewhere along the way though, when school got harder and people got smarter, i lost that spark. i knew, from back in year 7 that i wanted to get into medicine. i remember going to open days in year 8 and making a beeline from the med faculty, pretending to be a year 10 student so people would take me seriously, and asking questions about admission requirements, recommended vce subjects, how to ace the ucat (umat at the time). somewhere in year 9 i got completely burnt out. i had worked myself to exhaustion in years 7 and 8, and was sleeping something like 5 hours a night. i even got hospitalised because my immune system was ridiculously compromised, and my biggest worry at the time was "i've missed a term of school, how will i pass my exams?". in short, not a headspace you want to be in as a 14 year old. instead of that being a wakeup call for myself, my parents or my school, i just spiralled from there. schoolwork got harder in year 10, and my peers started stepping up their game too. where once i had sailed through school without much of an effort, i now hit a learning curve in most of my subjects; putting in hours of work felt futile because i wasn't getting the marks i used to. i was also struggling with friendships, sexuality and mental health, and by year 11, i had a worryingly low attendance rate and had dropped out of one of my two 3/4 accelerated subjects. year 12 sucked the soul out of me, and i remember being absolutely apathetic about my final exams, knowing i had no chance in hell of getting into medicine with my abysmal ucat score and just a mediocre grasp on half my vce subjects. i ended up graduating that year with an atar in the high 90s - i was surprised that it was almost close enough to have been competitive, and even more surprised that i had managed a score like that while being plagued with depression and PTSD.
the summer holidays saw me change my preferences almost daily, mindlessly cycling through science, arts, commerce, law, PPE, biomedicine. it felt like a sick game, a punishment. my scores were close, but not close enough; i was told that i was good, but clearly not good enough. my dream was just that - a dream. i couldn't envision myself doing three or four years of a course about which i was indifferent. as someone who is intrinsically purpose-driven, i had to be working towards something that had an end product that meant something to me, i needed that clarity. i talked to careers counsellors, older cousins, friends of friends in various fields. in the end, i came to the conslusion that medicine was still what i wanted to do, and so if there was no other choice, i'd try for the graduate pathway. however there was still one glimmer of hope for my undergrad med dream - i had heard of someone who had a good atar, who had taken a gap year and redone the umat, and gotten into medicine that way. i was opposed to this idea at first, thinking firstly that i didn't want to base my entire year off on this one 2 hour test (ucat), and that even if i did get in, i would still feel like a bit of a fraud, given i didn't get in on my first shot. eventually, i reasoned that i'd give myself a chance - one year wouldn't be a lot, in the scheme of things, and i felt that i had it in me to do well in the ucat - an exam for which i had barely studied in the previous year. putting some more thought into it, i wondered whether i could redo any of my vce subjects, to bump up my atar just a little, and make me a more competitive applicant. i found an institution through which this was an option, and decided to sign up to do two new subjects, during this "gap year" of sorts.
at this point, i was terrified. i didn't know of anyone who had taken a pathway like this, couldn't decide whether or not i was "cheating the system", didn't know whether this was a morally just option. in the end, i realised that this pathway was available to anyone who was game enough to take it, and told myself to stop beating myself up for allowing myself another chance. depression makes you self-sabotage and question yourself a lot. ha ha ha. so the year went on, and i studied hard for the ucat, putting in hours and hours a day for many months. my hard work paid off, rewarding me with a score around the ~98th percentile. i was thrilled. i remember this being the turning point for me, the moment i believed that hey perhaps my dream wasn't out of reach after all, that maybe hard work truly could pay off. so i worked hard again for exams, and managed to bump up my atar a little - not a lot, but enough to make it properly competitive. i still struggled majorly with my mental health in this year, i was severely depressed, almost suicidal. i was wondering whether or not to put in a SEAS application - would they think i was weak? would the endemic mental health crisis in physicians make them less likely to admit me into medicine? was medicine no longer the right course for me given i had such severe mental illness myself? i ended up trusting my gut and putting in a SEAS application, and applying to schools all over the country, hoping to god that it wouldn't ruin my chances. but soon, i was scoring interviews left right and centre, and it truly felt like a dream come true. to have even made it to this point, where i was getting interview offers seemed surreal - if you had told me i'd be here a year ago, i wouldn't have believed you. so then, i worked hard to prepare for interviews, and got a few offers. what a relief. an unbonded spot in monash medicine? i n c r e d i b l e. just insane. i did that. me!
there is a lot of skepticism out there for taking a gap year to redo the ucat, or to redo/do more year 12 subjects. i scoured the internet for opinions, testimonials, and didn't find many that endorsed this pathway. my advice to anyone in a similar situation i was in, is to trust your gut, and to trust yourself. you, and only you, know what you're capable of, you know the situation you're in better than any stranger on the internet, and only you can muster up the self-belief, the discipline and the bloody hard work to get yourself where you want to be. vce was never my thing, i hated my school and didn't love my subjects. i didn't get any scores above 45; hell, even one of my scores didn't get scaled above 40, but i'm still here. i'm just hoping this story can maybe inspire someone to keep going and hold onto dreams. and please, if you're struggling with your mental health, reach out for help. finding one person who cares about you, be it counsellor, friend, psych or mentor, makes a world of difference.
i think this is a post as much for me as it is for you guys, to reflect back on my journey, and have some semblance of pride to see how far i've come. i'm still trying to believe that i deserve this spot as much as anyone else, that i truly deserve to be here. imposter syndrome is a b*tch. it was tough, extremely tough at times, but it taught me to back myself, trust the process, and hold onto hope. i'm happy to respond to comments or pms, although i'm not sure how frequently i'll be checking my inbox. all the best x
SmallBrain
Member
Hi! This is a somewhat confused (VIC) year 10 student trying to decide what subjects they should choose next year. I am studying accelerated Psychology & Chinese Second Language as VCE (year 11) subjects. Did you find "the suicide six" too much to handle? In order to get into medicine, do I need "the suicide six"? I'm planning to study the following six subjects:
-english
-mathematical methods
-chemistry
-chinese second language (year 12)
-psychology / biology (year11 if I decide to scrap one year's worth of psychology)
-physics
1. Should I do all 3 sciences? Will I be overloaded?
2. If you were to choose between physics and biology, which one would you choose? (because physics has a smaller cohort? or biology is easier?)
3. Should I drop one years' worth of study of psychology and replace it with biology?
Could you please give some advice?
Thank you!
-english
-mathematical methods
-chemistry
-chinese second language (year 12)
-psychology / biology (year11 if I decide to scrap one year's worth of psychology)
-physics
1. Should I do all 3 sciences? Will I be overloaded?
2. If you were to choose between physics and biology, which one would you choose? (because physics has a smaller cohort? or biology is easier?)
3. Should I drop one years' worth of study of psychology and replace it with biology?
Could you please give some advice?
Thank you!
Your questions were the following:
- Should I do all 3 sciences? Will I be overloaded?
- If you were to choose between physics and biology, which one would you choose? (because physics has a smaller cohort? or biology is easier?)
- Should I drop one years' worth of study of psychology and replace it with biology?
- Do the subjects that interest you! These subjects will usually be the ones that you are going to perform well in.
Besides ensuring you meet any prerequisites (these vary from uni to uni, some have multiple, though I can assure you that NONE have six!, some have none), I agree with the above. Also make sure you meet prerequisites for any other degree/career pathways you are interested in if they have any.
That said, even this is not a firm requirement (for Med or any other career pathway). There are bridging courses and non-standard entry options that can address this beyond year 12.
I think an appropriate balance will reward you. You dont need to do the hardest subjects to do very well, nor will it be easy to do very well with just doing subjects you love that dont scale very well.
A good mix is needed and they need to align with your strengths and your interests. For example, a good friend of mine who liked Economics was going to do that but instead chose Engineering instead because whilst Engineering scaled lower, he was not a strong essay writer and 40% of the Economics final exam is based on essays. Vice versa he chose English Advanced because of the scaling advantage over Standard despite of his strengths and weaknesses and was rewarded with both his choices.
I think its a highly personalised decision and you should take an honest assesment of your strengths and weaknesses instead of just following the mold that someone else has made - e.g. Suicide 6/Asian 5/whatever name someone has made up
A good mix is needed and they need to align with your strengths and your interests. For example, a good friend of mine who liked Economics was going to do that but instead chose Engineering instead because whilst Engineering scaled lower, he was not a strong essay writer and 40% of the Economics final exam is based on essays. Vice versa he chose English Advanced because of the scaling advantage over Standard despite of his strengths and weaknesses and was rewarded with both his choices.
I think its a highly personalised decision and you should take an honest assesment of your strengths and weaknesses instead of just following the mold that someone else has made - e.g. Suicide 6/Asian 5/whatever name someone has made up
whys
Regular Member
There isn’t really an average ATAR, it varies depending on the year’s cohort and which medical school you are applying to. Some unis will publish their median ATAR and lowest ATAR for entry into each course, so you can look that up for medicine specifically if it will help you. You can also view the MSO collated data which lists the ATAR/UCAT scores to receive an interview and the combinations that receive an offer for each year. Here is the one for 2021 entry into medicine and dentistry: Aus Med and Dent Place Offers 2021 Entry - Collated Data
There are many free resources available for the UCAT, with the best ones obviously being those provided by the UCAT consortium itself and can be found on the official website. A quick google search will list free resources for the UCAT, which may be of use to you. Talking about commercial prep companies and UCAT tutors is not permitted - I suggest you have a read of MSO’s rules as well.
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Whilst there is not an average ATAR across all medical schools certain schools have very high median scores which are most likely good indicators of future offers, this is found in unis which weigh ATAR for offers or to reach interviews. In other unis which don't consider atar for offers while the scores are most likely in the high 97+ range for those with offers , this doesn't really matter or provide any useful information.
For certain unis
- UNSW : A 99.0 + at least is competitive
- Griffith : 99.60 +[100% ATAR]
- USYD : 99.95
- JCU : Generally 98 + [At least before but the written application is more important]
- Melbourne : 99+ [Via Chancellors pathway or FFP]
- Monash Interstate : 99+ [For interstates]
Though EAS [which can change selection ranks] , Rural entry etc vary quite a bit in terms of scores compared to general entry. In general whilst atar is important for most universities the UCAT is far more important.
Everything looks good except for the UNSW and Monash figures. UNSW confirmed last year that the minimum selection rank for a place offer was 99.60, while for Monash interstate it's more like 99.80+ (+ min. 98%ile UCAT) to even be invited for an interview in the first place - this was in 2019.
What would the scores be for rural entry?
Hard to estimate since a lot of it can depend on rurality and also there aren't a lot of rural offers here on MSO to make an accurate prediction
tryharddd123
Lurker
Even with EAS high 80s would have minimal prospect unfortunately. You must try hard to get into mid-90s then with EAS and an excellent UCAT to have some chances.
tryharddd123
Lurker
JeydinNewWon
Regular Member
WSU is low 90s ATAR. I think GWS (please don’t quote me on this), gives you 5 bonus points for your ATAR for WSU specifically. Of course, try and claim as many bonus points as you can from EAS, as it will surely boost your mark.
Just give this year your best shot and aim HIGH; you WILL surprise yourself if you try hard enough. I got a 98+ ATAR last year whilst struggling with severe anxiety and trauma that left me unable to study 70% of the time and didn’t even think I’d get 90+. But with the small ounce of motivation and time I had left, I just pushed through and did my best. You CAN do this!