Non-standard Medicine Entry

[A1]

Does anyone know how a UTAS GPA is translated for other unis. UTAS only requires 60% for Credit and 70% for Distinction (as opposed to 65 & 75% at other unis). I asked UAC and they were no help, other than telling me I could pay a fee to get my GPA after they'd calculated it. I want to know if they look at grades and give you a new GPA or simply carry over the GPA given by UTAS.

If you apply for Gemsas graduate med GPA is calculated on the Gemsas scale : 60-64= Credit(5), 65-69= Credit+(5.5), 70-74= D(6) etc.

For undergrad med via a TAC like UAC, the TACs generally use your grade codes as shown on transcript & ignore your marks, so a Credit is a Credit whether it's from 60+ or 65+.

If you apply directly to a uni for a course there, please ask them then let us know how they do.

 

[Minnieboi]

Hi all,

I have been a physiotherapist for 2 years but now I am considering getting into medicine. I have sat the GAMSAT twice with a reasonable score for the 2nd sitting so am now just waiting to see if I would get an interview offer. My main concern is my GPA, which is around 5.7, 5.8 according to GEMSAS. This is due to me not wanting to pursue medicine during my physio degree (Bachelor of Health Sciences and Master of Physiotherapy Practice). I just wanted to pass. I only realised that I wanted to study medicine during my last year of physio but it was already too late. Now I am kicking myself for not trying hard enough.

I am worried that my GPA will be too low for most universities. I know some unis only use GPA as hurdles but they have ridiculously high GAMSAT requirement which I do not think I will ever be able to reach.

I have been thinking about the undergraduate route a lot lately. My plan is to study another undergraduate degree (Paramedic/Nursing), get as high a GPA as possible, sit the UCAT then apply for undergraduate medicine. If that fails then I can complete said degree with a better GPA then sit the GAMSAT again.

Does this sound like a reasonable plan to you? Do you have any other suggestion or idea? Thank you.

Minnieboi.

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Hi all,

I have been a physiotherapist for 2 years but now I am considering getting into medicine. I have sat the GAMSAT twice with a reasonable score for the 2nd sitting so am now just waiting to see if I would get an interview offer. My main concern is my GPA, which is around 5.7, 5.8 according to GEMSAS. This is due to me not wanting to pursue medicine during my physio degree (Bachelor of Health Sciences and Master of Physiotherapy Practice). I just wanted to pass. I only realised that I wanted to study medicine during my last year of physio but it was already too late. Now I am kicking myself for not trying hard enough.

I am worried that my GPA will be too low for most universities. I know some unis only use GPA as hurdles but they have ridiculously high GAMSAT requirement which I do not think I will ever be able to reach.

I have been thinking about the undergraduate route a lot lately. My plan is to study another undergraduate degree (Paramedic/Nursing), get as high a GPA as possible, sit the UCAT then apply for undergraduate medicine. If that fails then I can complete said degree with a better GPA then sit the GAMSAT again.

Does this sound like a reasonable plan to you? Do you have any other suggestion or idea? Thank you.

Minnieboi.

A few questions first, so I can accurately help you out:

Do you have a preferred state to study in? Would you consider Townsville or Perth (assuming you’re not already in either of these regions) for example?

What was your ATAR?

Can you see yourself working long term as a nurse or paramedic (or would you go back to physio if you didn’t get into Med)?

 

[Minnieboi]

A few questions first, so I can accurately help you out:

Do you have a preferred state to study in? Would you consider Townsville or Perth (assuming you’re not already in either of these regions) for example?

What was your ATAR?

Can you see yourself working long term as a nurse or paramedic (or would you go back to physio if you didn’t get into Med)?

I have no preferred state and do not mind moving interstate. I am currently living in Melbourne.

My ATAR was 96.85. This was back in 2012/2013. I did Maths Methods + Specialist, Chem and Physics in year 12.

I can work as a paramedic/nurse long term but I will keep trying to get into medicine.

 

[DrDrLMG!]

I have no preferred state and do not mind moving interstate. I am currently living in Melbourne.

My ATAR was 96.85. This was back in 2012/2013. I did Maths Methods + Specialist, Chem and Physics in year 12.

I can work as a paramedic/nurse long term but I will keep trying to get into medicine.

Okay, given your replies, your non-standard options are basically as follows:

1. Use your current GPA to apply to JMP and WSU (and possibly Curtin, I'm not sure what makes a competitive non-standard GPA over there, tbh). GPA is only a hurdle requirement at JMP and WSU, and you are above it in both cases with your current result. The benefit of this is you don't have to do any further study. You will need to sit UCAT, but you have probably left it too late for this year, so that's a 2020 job. Other bonus; JMP and WSU both take quite a high number of non-standards (comparatively), so if these were your only two options, they're the most 'high chance' options to have anyway.

1a. With the relatively new psychometric testing component for Bond entry lowering the initial GPA requirement slightly, your 5.7 MAY be enough to get you over the line there too, finances depending re. viability of this University, of course. No UCAT required, so you could try for 2020 entry to Bond.

2. The other Universities you'd be looking at as a non-standard would be UNSW and JCU. Your GPA isn't high enough for either of these, so, realistically, if you wanted to apply you'd need to do further study. BUT... is this worth it?

JCU heavily favours rural applicants (I assume you aren't one if you're saying you're worried about your GEMSAS GPA), and takes very few non-standards. You could give an application a go this year based on your current GPA, just to see how things go, as there is no UCAT requirement. Could be worth it for the experience, tbh, and if you nail the written application, then you never know your luck!

UNSW will use your ATAR as 50% of your academic rank regardless of how long ago you graduated and 96.85 is definitely on the very low side, unfortunately. Even if you re-did some study and got a GPA of 7.00, you may still struggle to get your academic rank high enough to be competitive (A1 can more accurately advise on what kind of GPA you'd need to combine with that 96 to secure a competitive academic rank).

ETA: Actually, re. GPA/ATAR for UNSW, I applied there and while I received an interview, I was basically told not to bother coming as I had a less than 5% chance of receiving an offer based on the following: ATAR/GPA = 97.15/7.00, UMAT = 98th %ile. It was clearly my ATAR that was the problem, so yours would also likely be prohibitive. I doubt even a 100th %ile UMAT would have improved my chances all that much.

Another question: Did you happen to study Physio at Monash? (they have a pathway for physio grads, though I have no idea if you need to be a new grad or not).

 

[A1]

Even if you re-did some study and got a GPA of 7.00, you may still struggle to get your academic rank high enough to be competitive (A1 can more accurately advise on what kind of GPA you'd need to combine with that 96 to secure a competitive academic rank).

For UNSW you need ATAR 98.5 (plus high UMAT/UCAT) to have a remote chance. A top GPA 6.5+ will only give 99.5 then must combine with at least 97.5 to get 98.5 equivalent.

So UNSW is practically out for Minnieboi . JCU and Curtin a small chance., most realistic to go for WSU and JMP.

Another possibility is to do a 6/12-month Grad Diploma at Flinders to be eligible for Flinders' less competitive quota for its students.

 

[Crow]

Another possibility is to do a 6/12-month Grad Diploma at Flinders to be eligible for Flinders' less competitive quota for its students.

I suspect a GPA of 5.7 (likely lower as this is the GEMSAS GPA rather than Flinders) would be too low for a non-rural student even with an exceptional GAMSAT and interview.

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Another possibility is to do a 6/12-month Grad Diploma at Flinders to be eligible for Flinders' less competitive quota for its students.

Just to clarify for Minnieboi, the Flinders route is not non-standard, it’s grad entry and will use the GAMSAT you’ve already done (or will re-do). But yep, one to add to the list if it’s feasible and if you can risk the $$ of a grad dip for a maybe.

I suspect a GPA of 5.7 (likely lower as this is the GEMSAS GPA rather than Flinders) would be too low for a non-rural student even with an exceptional GAMSAT and interview.

I think the GEMSAS GPA is 5.8 (not that that’s all that much different). ETA: or I’m misinterpreting the intended punctuation (possible!).

 

[Minnieboi]

You will need to sit UCAT

- so I can still sit the UCAT even though I am postgraduate?

It is impossible for me to afford the fees for Bond. It is something like $350,000 isn't it?

Did you happen to study Physio at Monash?

- no I did not. I studied at La Trobe.

Another possibility is to do a 6/12-month Grad Diploma at Flinders to be eligible for Flinders' less competitive quota for its students.

- if I were to do a Grad Diploma, would that boost my GPA up if I did it well?

Also I am not rural. I worked rural as a physio for 2 years but I doubt that would count for much.

 

[A1]

- so I can still sit the UCAT even though I am postgraduate?

Yes you certainly can.
Not that you're interested in but Bond's fees are now close to $400k for the 14 trimesters, as there will be a little increase each year.

- if I were to do a Grad Diploma, would that boost my GPA up if I did it well?
Also I am not rural. I worked rural as a physio for 2 years but I doubt that would count for much.

Unfortunately no since Flinders only uses your undergrad GPA.

Your 2 years working rural may help a little with JCU/Curtin applications as these schools have a higher emphasis on servicing rural areas. Possibly help with WSU/JMP interview too. Best of luck with your journey.

 

[DrDrLMG!]

- so I can still sit the UCAT even though I am postgraduate?

To recap your non-standard(/undergraduate) options given the information you've provided, I'd personally recommend the following:

2019: complete a JCU written application. I'd start working on this very soon as it is a huge component of the process and is weighted very heavily. In the answers, I'd emphasise the rural allied health work you've done and detail how this has influenced your desire to study medicine in a rural location and to then practice rurally. Domestic Applicants

If unsuccessful at JCU* for 2020 entry, then...

2020: sign up to sit UCAT and complete some of the freely available preparation material to ready yourself for the style and content of the test as it's likely to be quite different to anything you've done before. Apply to Curtin, WSU, and JMP and hope for interviews. Complete the JCU written application again, making some adjustments to your previous application based on what you've done in the intervening year and reflecting on your previous application and how far it got you (ie. if it got you to an interview, then you might not need to change too much, it might be more working on your interview skills, but if you didn't land an interview, then thinking about how you might better present yourself in your written responses - if that makes sense).

(*Your GPA for JCU is definitely on the low side, but given your rural allied health experience, and assuming you can get this across appropriately in your written application, it is definitely worth throwing your hat in the ring. Don't be dismayed, however, if it doesn't happen, rural background is very important for JCU so you'll be up against it and it's not your 'best shot' uni for med by a long shot - that's probably JMP)

Obviously this all pertains to non-standard entry. If you have further questions about your GEMSAS application or graduate entry options, then please feel free to post them in the appropriate thread.

 

[canUhearMe?]

I have a question regarding JCU medicine:

I have read on MSO that JCU favours rural students, but after calling JCU several times I have been told that there is no preference or priority given to students who have resided in a rural area/been educated in a rural area, there is no quota for rural student intake and there are no bonus points given to rural students.
I understand that work experience ect. from rural regions is a huge beneficiary, but as far as two students of the exact same candidature (hypothetically), there is no preference given to the rural student.

Can someone clarify this?
Thank you

 

[Logic]

I have a question regarding JCU medicine:

I have read on MSO that JCU favours rural students, but after calling JCU several times I have been told that there is no preference or priority given to students who have resided in a rural area/been educated in a rural area, there is no quota for rural student intake and there are no bonus points given to rural students.
I understand that work experience ect. from rural regions is a huge beneficiary, but as far as two students of the exact same candidature (hypothetically), there is no preference given to the rural student.

Can someone clarify this?
Thank you

From what I know in the application form for JCU (https://www.jcu.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/272769/Application-Form_2020-Intake.pdf) you have to write down what schools you have attended from year 1 to graduation including what suburb they are located in and they require you to do a statutory declaration. This implies that the locations of your schools is somewhat important (i.e. whether they are rural or not), otherwise there would be no need for this kind of information. Perhaps Crow, A1 or LMG! can provide further information.

 

[canUhearMe?]

From what I know in the application form for JCU (https://www.jcu.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/272769/Application-Form_2020-Intake.pdf) you have to write down what schools you have attended from year 1 to graduation including what suburb they are located on and they require you to do a statutory declaration. This implies that the locations of your schools is somewhat important (i.e. whether they are rural or not), otherwise there would be no need for this kind of information. Perhaps Crow, A1 or LMG! can provide further information.

Thanks Logic, yeah I have seen that, and having read LMG and other notable members, this is why I am confused from the response JCU gave me over the phone (I called numerous times over a month ensuring I had different callers - all came back with same info)

 

[A1]

there is no quota for rural student intake and there are no bonus points given to rural students.

It may be the case that there's no quota and no actual bonus points, but JCU's criteria for interview selection is ATAR + Application + a Rurality score, for place offers is ATAR + Interview + Rurality. Obviously non-rural applicants will get a lower Rurality score.

 

[canUhearMe?]

It may be the case that there's no quota and no actual bonus points, but JCU's criteria for interview selection is ATAR + Application + a Rurality score, for place offers is ATAR + Interview + Rurality. Obviously non-rural applicants will get a lower Rurality score.

Thanks A1, do you know where I might be able to find more on that or is that extrapolated from MSO collated entry data? I am a non-standard student if that changes anything. I don't doubt you, but it's very confusing considering what JCU told me, is it common place for med schools to lack transparency with specifics like this?

 

[Crow]

Take it from Benjamin - no better person to answer your question than him:

Yes, JCU allocates more spots for people that are more likely to go rural after graduating - this is literally their reason for existing as a medical school. Classically this has been determined by a rurality score which was a combination of objective (where you grew up, did schooling) and subjective (how likely the interview panel thinks you will go rural) scores.

I’d agree there’s no quota, but there are certainly “bonus points” (or whatever JCU wants to call it) given for rurality - we’ve seen rural applicants with ATARs as low as 93 and 94 gaining interviews in the past. No such luck with non-rural applicants, which speaks for itself I think.

ETA: Admissions teams and tertiary centres (sadly) contradict themselves all the time, too. Wouldn’t be overly surprised if you called another day, spoke to someone different, and got a different answer.

 

[canUhearMe?]

Take it from Benjamin - no better person to answer your question than him:
I’d agree there’s no quota, but there are certainly “bonus points” (or whatever JCU wants to call it) given for rurality - we’ve seen rural applicants with ATARs as low as 93 and 94 gaining interviews in the past. No such luck with non-rural applicants, which speaks for itself I think.

Thanks Crow! I am non-rural and non-standard, I was trying to see if I would be limited with my non-rurality considering the already limited spots to non-standards. Thanks for helping to clear this up for me

Take it from Benjamin - no better person to answer your question than him:
I’d agree there’s no quota, but there are certainly “bonus points” (or whatever JCU wants to call it) given for rurality - we’ve seen rural applicants with ATARs as low as 93 and 94 gaining interviews in the past. No such luck with non-rural applicants, which speaks for itself I think.

ETA: Admissions teams and tertiary centres (sadly) contradict themselves all the time, too. Wouldn’t be overly surprised if you called another day, spoke to someone different, and got a different answer.

That is a shame considering the lack of transparency, thanks for that, I will have a look at Benjamins postings.
Really appreciate the help!

 

[DrDrLMG!]

is it common place for med schools to lack transparency with specifics like this?

Do not even get me started, OMG! Haha!

In addition to what has been pointed out above, and apologies if you've already looked at this, these are the JCU offers reported here to MSO last year for 2019 entry. Over many years, we have fairly reliably been able to estimate that between 5 and 10% of all offers are reported here, which isn't heaps but is certainly enough to get trends and do some extrapolation. You'll see that of the 21 offers reported here, 11 of them were definitely rural, 1 was possibly rural, and 9 either weren't rural or didn't say (so some could be from rural students). Given the overall % of non-rural applicants would be much, much higher than the number of rural applicants (by sheer force of numbers, nationwide), that only ~43% of successful applicants (here at MSO) are non-rural (or haven't said) indicates that, regardless of what they say, there is a definite bias towards students from rural backgrounds. And this would also fit with their ethos, so it's not surprising. What is surprising* is that they seem to be denying it! Haha!

7.00, BMP, intending to accept UNSW
6.70, CSP
99.75, CSP, intending to accept UNSW
99.65, RA2, CSP
99.55, RA3, BMP, second round
6.45, RA3, BMP
99.35, RA3
99.35, possibly rural, CSP
99.25, CSP
99.05
OP1, RA2, CSP
OP1, CSP
OP1, RA3
98.85, RA3
98.35, BMP
OP2, CSP
OP2, BMP
OP2, RA3
OP3, RA3, BMP
OP3, RA5, CSP
95.60, RA3

*I say surprising, but lol, see my comment re. transparency.

One other thing, when you've spoken to admissions, have to spoken to general admissions or medical admissions specifically? Because it is also not uncommon for general admissions staff to not be fully on top of the often unique entry criteria for some of the more complex entry pathways (ie. medicine). If you spoke to general admissions, then spoke to med admissions, you might get different answers again. And it's entirely possible neither would be particularly accurate, they're just be inaccurate in different ways

 

[octagu]

Hey all, I'm currently doing a first year undergraduate degree in radiography, and looking to apply to all med schools that take non-standard applicants. I got an ATAR of 96.90 last year in my HSC and got interviews at UAdel and JMP (but didn't pass the interview stage). I was just wondering what my options would be for entry, and realistically what my chances would be for each of those options. Thanks