Post-UMAT 2018 Debrief Thread

[tleb]

i watched the whole naruto series on high speed night before umat xd

I watched anime before my final exams and had to take a year 13 at the exact same school again!
At least I learnt how to determine if a game is fair or not, wish UMAT was that easy

 

[frootloop]

I watched anime before my final exams and had to take a year 13 at the exact same school again!
At least I learnt how to determine if a game is fair or not, wish UMAT was that easy

UMAT isn't particularly 'fair'. A study of ~120,000 first-time Australian UMAT sitters from 2000-12 suggested that total scores are lower for:

• Candidates from lower socioeconomic backgrounds - top 2 deciles 13.0%iles higher than the bottom 2 deciles. Also worth noting that 50.8% of the cohort were from the top 2 deciles, cf 6.9% from the bottom 2, suggesting systematic barriers for poorer students in even getting to the exam. Going to a private school unsurprisingly helped as well.
• Older candidates - linear decrease by age, with those >30yo scoring 22.7%iles lower than those <16yo. This one I found interesting, as it conflicts rather strongly with all my anecdotal evidence - they mirrored the gender stats, doing better in section 2, but not overall.
• People who speak a language other than English at home by 10.4%iles. Asian-speaking languages only 2.4%ile higher than average in section 3 as well, which is lower than the stereotype would have predicted.
• Indigenous students - 9.6%iles lower for Aboriginal, 6.2% lower for Torres Straight Islanders. Rather like the SES stats, only 0.5% of the cohort were indigenous students, compared with 3.0% of all Australians in your 2011 census. So again, that suggests systematic barriers in to even getting to the UMAT exam.
  
• Women by 3.6%iles (better in section 2 though).
• Rurality - progressively lower as you get more remote.

So it favours rich, white males. Which is pretty much what you'd expect. Some secondhand information I got regarding statistics kept by our Māori department also backs up that Australian finding for indigenous students.

And when you consider the ludicrous percentiles you need to even get an interview at most places, those deficits are pretty significant.

 

[Lear]

UMAT isn't particularly 'fair'. A study of ~120,000 first-time Australian UMAT sitters from 2000-12 suggested that total scores are lower for:

• Candidates from lower socioeconomic backgrounds - top 2 deciles 13.0%iles higher than the bottom 2 deciles. Also worth noting that 50.8% of the cohort were from the top 2 deciles, cf 6.9% from the bottom 2, suggesting systematic barriers for poorer students in even getting to the exam. Going to a private school unsurprisingly helped as well.
• Older candidates - linear decrease by age, with those >30yo scoring 22.7%iles lower than those <16yo. This one I found interesting, as it conflicts rather strongly with all my anecdotal evidence - they mirrored the gender stats, doing better in section 2, but not overall.
• People who speak a language other than English at home by 10.4%iles. Asian-speaking languages only 2.4%ile higher than average in section 3 as well, which is lower than the stereotype would have predicted.
• Indigenous students - 9.6%iles lower for Aboriginal, 6.2% lower for Torres Straight Islanders. Rather like the SES stats, only 0.5% of the cohort were indigenous students, compared with 3.0% of all Australians in your 2011 census. So again, that suggests systematic barriers in to even getting to the UMAT exam.
  
• Women by 3.6%iles (better in section 2 though).
• Rurality - progressively lower as you get more remote.

So it favours rich, white males. Which is pretty much what you'd expect. Some secondhand information I got regarding statistics kept by our Māori department also backs up that Australian finding for indigenous students.

And when you consider the ludicrous percentiles you need to even get an interview at most places, those deficits are pretty significant.

It is relatively easy to speak of the shortcomings of tests such as the UMAT. I agree with you, the UMAT is definitely not a perfect system and indeed disadvantages the non-privileged.
However, what’s your ideal solution? What system would you adopt in order to ensure that med places are filled with excellent, prospective students?

 

[sarangiya]

Surprised no one besides me used brain training games to get better at umat lmao sucks to be u guys

I'm surprised you're not the tuna eater since you're such a smelly boy

 

[Smelly Boy]

Anyone else aiming for unsw dentistry besides me?

 

[Mana]

Anyone else aiming for unsw dentistry besides me?

It's really competitive - exactly 0 people get into this each year.

 

[Terron Beckham]

How does going to a private school help with umat?

 

[frootloop]

It is relatively easy to speak of the shortcomings of tests such as the UMAT. I agree with you, the UMAT is definitely not a perfect system and indeed disadvantages the non-privileged.
However, what’s your ideal solution? What system would you adopt in order to ensure that med places are filled with excellent, prospective students?

This isn't a dig at you (because it's really prevalent), but I really dislike this sort of argument. The sort of 'it sucks, but you can't come up with a quick solution off the top of your head so that just demonstrates that it's not possible' argument.

There are affirmative action schemes at every medical school in Australasia (as far as I'm aware) which aim to do just that. The rural and indigenous entry pathways are examples.

Obviously such systems aren't perfect, and still don't address the SES, age, gender or ethnicity (other than indigenous) biases in the entry systems, but they're a start.

(Also, there's a half-decent arguement for a partial lottery system like some of the European nations use)

How does going to a private school help with umat?

Most likely as a proxy measure for SES (and possibly better education in critical thinking and reading comprehension than some underfunded low-decile public schools?)

 

[Woo18]

I wish I had this kind of willpower lol, because I know that getting disappointed with the UMAT will affect my motivation for the rest of year 12.

Sometime it helps to know you did everything in your power to do your best and what happens happens

 

[Woo18]

Why would I submit myself to this kind of torture

Because that way Good or Bad your focus is on your assessments Not the number on your ACER screen that comes in Mid September.lol

 

[Smelly Boy]

See y’all on Tuesday 11:34am when results come out

 

[sarangiya]

See y’all on Tuesday 11:34am when results come out

grr quit jinxing it

 

[Lear]

grr quit jinxing it

In that case, see y'all 2018 when the results come out.

 

[Smelly Boy]

See y’all

 

[Real Smelly Boy]

See y’all

good bye smelly boy, ill miss you dude. Love your contribution to this forum page, ill be anxiously waiting for your next post xx

fingers crossed we both get 100th percentile as predicted.

 

[Eliden]

Older candidates - linear decrease by age, with those >30yo scoring 22.7%iles lower than those <16yo. This one I found interesting, as it conflicts rather strongly with all my anecdotal evidence - they mirrored the gender stats, doing better in section 2, but not overall.

So, we need an affirmative action scheme to balance the odds for those of us over 30 whose brains are rapidly turning to mush, lol

 

[A1]

So, we need an affirmative action scheme to balance the odds for those of us over 30 whose brains are rapidly turning to mush, lol

And with that LMG! would have scored 108th instead of 98th %ile.

Older candidates - linear decrease by age, with those >30yo scoring 22.7%iles lower than those <16yo.

I would say this is the direct result of these >30yos not doing as much prep as school leavers do

• Women by 3.6%iles (lower).

The Med Deans stats show med students female/male ratio is around 53:47 which mirrors the Y12s/ATAR stats. So this 3.6%iles lower has virtually no effect.

 

[Lear]

I would say this is the direct result of these >30yos not doing as much prep as school leavers do

But there’s no evidence prep improves Umat score !1!1!1!

 

[A1]

But there’s no evidence prep improves Umat score !1!1!1!

Exhibit 1: LMG! went from 92nd to 98th %ile with some methodical prep.
Exhibit 2: Every single one in the MSO 2016 prep group is now in med or dent school. (Oops correction: except one, out of 6-7)

I don't mean this in a serious way haha but it does show we can't dismiss prep as not helping at all.

 

[Lear]

Exhibit 1: LMG! went from 92nd to 98th %ile with some methodical prep.
Exhibit 2: Every single one in the MSO 2016 prep group is now in med or dent school. (Oops correction: except one, out of 6-7)

I don't mean this in a serious way haha but it does show we can't dismiss prep as not helping at all.

I, too, think prep can make a difference. My reply was highly sarcastic