Pre-UMAT 2018 Discussion Thread

[Austin]

First time i did umat I got 48%ile and didn’t prep for it.

I got s1: like 48?
S2: 41?
S3: 59

Then next year I prepped a lot and was averaging like 90/134 for medentry and got 72%ile

S1: 55
S2: 51
S3: 58

On this second attempt I was going well at the start and then I clearly remember halfway through doing s3 (the section I do first) I was finding it pretty difficult. I was getting really good scores on medentry and I really wanted to get a great score in the real thing so I (unintentionally) spent like 5-6 minutes on the really hard s3 questions by losing track of time. I had like 10 s3 question left at the 60 min mark (this is when I move on to the other sections) and instead of moving on I kept doing s3 and went over time by 15-20 mins loll. I had to guess like 15-20 questions in the end and the questions I could attempt, I did really rushed.

I’m 1 million percent sure that if I paced myself better I would have done really good (and that’s what I’m using prep for this year - just for getting my timing right).

So take it from an old timer and know that if a question is really difficult and u haven’t made any progress in about 50 seconds then cross off what you know is wrong and make an educated guess.

Tbh guessing from 2 or 3 options isn’t the end of the world. During prep, for s3 every time I make an educated guess I mark it so I can see how it affects my score and I found that i probably do that for about 9 questions out of 42 (these 9 I feel I can’t possibly get right unless I spend ages doing it). Out of the 9 I get about 4 right and I also save like 10 mins at the expense of 5 marks I wasn’t going to get anyway. For s3 you can always come back to the questions you made educated guesses on and have a go if u have time

Did your 2nd test scores score you any interviews as you seemed to get at least 50 in each section? Or would those test scores only score an interview if you had special considerations/school leaver/rural?

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Haha, that clears things up then! Thanks.

Yeah, definitely a no-no.

That said, I, and most people, ‘answered’ questions during reading time. In fact, I think I got through something like 10 S2 questions in that time. Then, as soon as writing time started, I quickly went back, filled in the answer sheet in a few seconds, and kept going.

 

[frootloop]

I disagree in general about there not being much evidence for S3 improvement. S3 largely mirrors a significant component of intellectual assessment in psychology, and there is a substantial body of research (and we all know, if you want research done right, you get a psych to do it ) to support practice effects in this to the point that IQ assessments re-administered within 12 months are generally frowned upon. Dedicating time to learning strategies and patterns is definitely beneficial.

The major methodological flaw with the small amount of (pretty poor) UMAT research I’ve seen has been a lack of pre and post prep intrasubject testing

Admittedly I stopped caring the thick end of a decade ago, but this is my point exactly - the direct evidence in favor of UMAT prep is absolutely terrible (or was last time I bothered looking for it).

The S3 evidence was vaguely suggestive, but that was offset by reduced S2 scores in the better/more statistically robust studies I looked at back when this stuff bothered me enough to keep on top of it.

Has there been any better research come out recently? Because unless there has, it's a bit much to point to the relative paucity of dedicated evidence as though that means anything.

The whole point of science in general is rejecting the null hypothesis (you know this better than I do, I just like stating the obvious). You certainly can't do that on the basis of the current (ok, recent-ish) evidence. S3 may be reasonably similar to other psychological tests, but S1 and S2 are not - and given the lack of any concrete information regarding ACER's marking technique, even the potential S3 gain from prep is debatable.

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Admittedly I stopped caring the thick end of a decade ago, but this is my point exactly - the direct evidence in favor of UMAT prep is absolutely terrible (or was last time I bothered looking for it).

The S3 evidence was vaguely suggestive, but that was offset by reduced S2 scores in the better studies I looked at back when this stuff bothered me enough to keep on top of it.

Has there been any better research come out recently? Because unless there has, it's a bit much to point to the relative paucity of dedicated evidence as though that means anything.

The whole point of science in general is rejecting the null hypothesis. You certainly can't do that on the basis of the current (ok, recent-ish) evidence. S3 may be reasonably similar to other psychological tests, but S1 and S2 are not - and given the lack of any concrete information regarding ACER's marking technique, even the potential S3 gain from prep is debatable.

I think the current status is that the UMAT specific “evidence” (for or against prep) isn’t “absolutely terrible”, the methodology of the research itself is terrible (and useful evidence, again, for or against, non-existent). You can’t reject or accept the null hypothesis on the basis of any of the research I’ve seen, because the designs have been largely poor (to say the least). Hence my rationale for looking at well designed related studies (on non-verbal reasoning, specifically, and practice effects more generally), of which there are plenty, as well as proposing future research.

 

[frootloop]

The methodology isn't actually that bad compared to a lot of medical education research. For its field, it's actually not bad (which admittedly isn't saying much).

I agree that it needs to be expanded on and presumably decent controlled trials would be nice. But in the absence of such studies, the current (again, I loosely use 'current' to mean 'when I last looked in like 2012'), evidence just does not support the spending of money on UMAT preparation. It hints at some potential gain in S3, but enough of a loss in S2 as to produce no significant advantage over no formal preparation.

I suppose I'm a little biased by the fact that Otago weights the three sections 45:45:10, so small potential gains in S3 never meant much to me anyway.

But I'm still cautious about applying the results of other psychological tests to section three of a test designed to select medical students. The population in question is different in ways the research hasn't even quantified, and those sitting the entry tests are aiming at different presumed standards.

I'd very much like to see decent recent research on the topic. And if preparation is shown to improve scores, I'd either like to see UMAT changed or a couple of free-to-access publications explaining how to do well without paying a prep company.

 

[firstsnow]

I know there be previous posts on this but: how do you improve section 1 and section 2?

Also, as anyone used icanmed? is it similar to the umat exam?

 

[frootloop]

I know there be previous posts on this but: how do you improve section 1 and section 2?

Also, as anyone used icanmed? is it similar to the umat exam?

I don't know. Go back in time and spend more time reading character development-heavy novels as a child or something.

Seriously though, read news and research and try to work out logical conclusions + what each party is feeling. Then go through the clinical folders and/or the databases and use what you've been taught in public health and your clinical rotations to analyze the decisions.

[Edit: I've had a little to drink and am an idiot. People sitting UMAT don't have access to clinical resources yet, obviously. If you need help with said critical analysis and haven't been taught it at school/uni, PM me or one of the other moderators - most of us will be happy to help)

 

[Tyrion]

whats everyone getting for acer practice paper 3?
i got 117/134 but i went over time, not sure how to get better at time with only 4 days left...
made 5 mistakes in s1, 6 in s2 and 6 in s3.

 

[Smelly Boy]

Good evening ladies and gentlemen

I did 2018 medentry exam 3 and my marks go like this:
37/48 s1 89%ile
22/48 s2 28%ile
31/42 s3 95%ile

Overall 90/134 87%ile

I finished with 25 mins left

just the s2 is different when comparing old medentry papers to new one. The s1 and s3 felt like the same thing

Use this information as you please

 

[Littlebro]

Just done ACER Practice Paper 1 under timed conditions and got 123/134 (assuming section allocations are same as actual exam, S1 42/48 S2 42/44 S3 39/42). I'm aware it's probably the easiest resource out there they provide, and the difficulty on the most part should be easier than the actual UMAT, but I was wondering if people have an idea of the sort of score it tended to correlate to in the actual exam for people in the past?

 

[jiaxing]

whats everyone getting for acer practice paper 3?
i got 117/134 but i went over time, not sure how to get better at time with only 4 days left...
made 5 mistakes in s1, 6 in s2 and 6 in s3.

Hi Tyrion,

I did ACER exam 3 timed, and I got 104/134.

I'm not expert in timing, so sorry can't really help you there. I guess that because the ACER exams are much easier than the real UMAT, I finished on time.

I am also averaging 80-90/134 on the ME practice exams, except for Exam 5 in which I got 69/134 (I had a lot on my plate which increased my cortisol levels which increased my stress levels which decreased my marks which made me sad LOLOL).

But seriously, can someone give me an idea of how I'm performing? I know this has been asked on Page 13, but perhaps I'm feeling a bit more nervous in that we only have 4 days left...

 

[Lear]

Am I the only one that feels the Medentry exams got easier and easier? I honestly can't tell if im improving or it's just easier exams towards the end. I went from getting 70s and 80s for the first few exams to consistently getting 90+ in the later ones. Anyone else's thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[AMedWannabe]

This is what I am getting for practice (NIE time trial test) and UMAT is next week.

On another NIE test I got 71/134. Apparently, NIE tests are harder than the actual test but I still want to make sure I am doing well.

 

[Smelly Boy]

Did your 2nd test scores score you any interviews as you seemed to get at least 50 in each section? Or would those test scores only score an interview if you had special considerations/school leaver/rural?

Wassup dood

I had special consideration for unsw and didn’t get an interview. My friend in second year unsw Med got in with a 98.50 atar and 68%ile umat with ‘less disadvantage’ than me in 2016 but I guess the competition was higher in 2017 for 2018 entry. I had 98.55 atar and a 6.5 gpa when applying for unsw

I got a jcu interview but few horrible things happened before the interview so I couldn’t speak properly o weLl

Round 3 here wE go

 

[A1]

Copy/paste mtse's post from Atarnotes for your info & general comparison. It's relevant to note LMG! and Dazzy also got similar prac scores and all three ended up achieving high 90s percentile.

I am happy to share some of my scores and you can take what you want from it.
Also just wanted to say it really isn't too late to start "revising" for UMAT, I only started about a month before the exam...

1st Practice Exam (at Medentry Workshop = percentiles are in comparison to Medentry students)
S1: 36/48 --> 95%ile
S2: 23/44 --> 65
S3: 18/42 --> 70
Overall: 77/134 --> expected %ile of "95-100"

Medentry Exams (all done within 3 hours...)
Exam 1: 98/134
Exam 2: 95/134
Exam 3: 100/134
Exam 4: 103/134
Exam 5: 110/134

ACER Practice Exam 1 (I completed this within 2 hours... they're on the easy side)
S1: 46/48
S2: 43/44
S3: 40/42
Overall: 129/134

Real UMAT 2015
S1: 65
S2: 62
S3: 68
Overall: 196 (I know it doesn't add up... apparently there are decimals which we don't see) --> 98th percentile

Good luck for the UMAT guys

 

[DrDrLMG!]

The methodology isn't actually that bad compared to a lot of medical education research. For its field, it's actually not bad (which admittedly isn't saying much).

I agree that it needs to be expanded on and presumably decent controlled trials would be nice. But in the absence of such studies, the current (again, I loosely use 'current' to mean 'when I last looked in like 2012'), evidence just does not support the spending of money on UMAT preparation. It hints at some potential gain in S3, but enough of a loss in S2 as to produce no significant advantage over no formal preparation.

I suppose I'm a little biased by the fact that Otago weights the three sections 45:45:10, so small potential gains in S3 never meant much to me anyway.

But I'm still cautious about applying the results of other psychological tests to section three of a test designed to select medical students. The population in question is different in ways the research hasn't even quantified, and those sitting the entry tests are aiming at different presumed standards.

I'd very much like to see decent recent research on the topic. And if preparation is shown to improve scores, I'd either like to see UMAT changed or a couple of free-to-access publications explaining how to do well without paying a prep company.

All the things you’re saying about population and methodology I agree with wholeheartedly. I think we are effectively agreeing here (that the current research is pretty shit and more needs to be done - but probably won’t be), just that I err on the ‘why not do...

I was replying to this hours ago. Then I went out for dinner and had a bit of wine.

And a cocktail. Oops?

Cheers, frootloop !!

 

[A1]

This is what I am getting for practice (NIE time trial test) and UMAT is next week.
On another NIE test I got 71/134. Apparently, NIE tests are harder than the actual test but I still want to make sure I am doing well.

In the real test 76/134 would not be sufficient. Ideally you'd want to get 90-100 out of 134.

 

[John Myers]

Hey guys, I was just curious as to the relative difficulty of the ACER additional practice questions 1 & 2 compared to the real thing? Is it the same as the practice exams in that they're quite easier? Thank you.

 

[AMedWannabe]

In the real test 76/134 would not be sufficient. Ideally you'd want to get 90-100 out of 134.

How? I feel that Construct 1 and 3 are my weak points. What percentile would 76/134 be? How can anybody rapidly improve in Construct 3 in five days? I've been trying all year but I haven't gotten anywhere.

 

[DrDrLMG!]

How? I feel that Construct 1 and 3 are my weak points. What percentile would 76/134 be? How can anybody rapidly improve in Construct 3 in five days? I've been trying all year but I haven't gotten anywhere.

76/134 would be just over 150/300 (Which is what UMAT is scored out of), and a percentile rank of just over 50th.

S1 is purportedly very difficult to improve. Your best bet is simply to have enough time. S3 is relatively more straightforward as there are strategies and patterns you can rote learn for some. S3 mapping has been talked about here and there are videos on YT.

Hey guys, I was just curious as to the relative difficulty of the ACER additional practice questions 1 & 2 compared to the real thing? Is it the same as the practice exams in that they're quite easier? Thank you.

I’ve only done one lot, and I definitely found them much easier than the real thing.