Questions about Chemistry and Physics

[Belezza]

Ok, I haven't received a reply from them yet, however..

Does anyone have any advice on what my best option would be if I am not able to apply for med school through HSFY?

Would I be best to start over, completing a Bachelor of Science and then applying for med as a graduate? Also, if I start over, does it matter that I'm 22? I feel like I'm going to be the oldest person alive when I finish med.. are there many people that start med school at a later age?

 

[Belezza]

Ok so they have now replied, although their reply wasn't very helpful.

"For entry into Medicine an applicant must pass all the papers prescribed for the HSFY programme with a minimum 70% and have a valid UMAT result. Selection for entry into Medicine is determined using a combination of a student's grade point average in the HSFY course (67%) and weighted UMAT result (33%).

For information on UMAT, UMAT registration and/or practice questions please contact the UMAT office at the Australian Council for Educational Research (ACER):"


"Thank you for your enquiry.


In order to enter HSFY, you will have to be granted a dispensation. If you are indeed eligible to enter HSFY, your previous tertiary study will not be considered again by the Division of Health Sciences as part of your HSFY application to MB ChB."

So what I get from this is that if I'm accepted for HSFY then I can apply for med school?

 

[Belezza]

Ok, I haven't received a reply from them yet, however..

Does anyone have any advice on what my best option would be if I am not able to apply for med school through HSFY?

Would I be best to start over, completing a Bachelor of Science and then applying for med as a graduate? Also, if I start over, does it matter that I'm 22? I feel like I'm going to be the oldest person alive when I finish med.. are there many people that start med school at a later age?

Any advice at all would be appreciated!

 

[Facebook]

My advice it to edit your posts rather than posting four times in a row.

Beyond that I would suggest that you contact them again to establish exactly what are your chances of being admitted into HSFY, in light of your existing study. If you can, great. If not, then you know that you'll need to complete a degree first and then apply under the graduate condition.

 

[Black Magic]

I wouldn't worry about age, I think about 25% of any given years medical cohort are post grads so they'll be roughly your age anyway. Certainly there are people who are a few years older then the norm studying medicine, especially with the 'other' entry category at Otago. If you are worried about getting into HSFY at Otago, perhaps consider Auckland? They don't seem have restrictions regarding previous tertiary education for entry into their biomed or health science pre med pathways.

 

[Dinahlady]

Hi there,

I have almost completed one year of my Bachelor of Social Sciences at Waikato Uni, and have now realised I would prefer to do something medical.

I have applied for HSFY at Otago uni, but am a little sceptical because...

1. I didn't do NCEA bio, physics or chemistry at school.
2. I struggled with physics and chemistry, however, I didn't actually put any effort into understanding any of it. So.. I'm not sure if I'm bad at it or if I just didn't pay enough attention.

My question is.. Do you think I will struggle having not completed these subjects in high school? Do I just give up now and accept that I won't be accepted into medicine?

Any advice appreciated, thanks!

Yes you will probably struggle to get the grades for med. Chem and physics are first semester and if you are behind you will have to struggle to keep up as well as adapting to the difference between university and school!
I would recommend doing the Otago foundation year as preparation, it goes over chem/physics and everything you need leading into HSFY, or you could risk it, and be prepared for the very real reality of doing a 2 more years before you can apply to med. Tbh I would rather have a 3 year degree then get into med, but it's up to you, then there is EFTs etc etc.

 

[Dinahlady]

Ah sorry, didn't see that you were already at uni/didn't read properly. I went into HSFY having not done physics and chemistry. I had done a lot of bio and human bio and even with that background having to catch up with chem and physics pulled my time from biology and HUBs so much. You will struggle. and to be honest I think it would be highly likely you'd get below a B in first semester in at least one paper which means you're not allowed to apply to med in first year. In physics you pretty much cover all of mechanics within a week, which is something that is gone into a lot of depth on at school, you might be ok if youve been doing advanced maths though, or if you pay heaps for one on one tutoring. After just 6 weeks of health sci there is terms tests, you have 6 weeks to catch up on 2 years worth of learning for all four subjects (HUBs debatable i guess) thats 6 years worth of work over 6 weeks. Put it this way: If you dont know what a mole is now, then after the second week of health sci you'll be shitting yourself come first chemistry lab because you wont know how to do the first exit test, which can count towards your final grade. Its pretty much unheard of to not have done ALL those subjects at school and to get into med, let alone pass the course. I would imagine that unless you are some kind of genious it would be near impossible to get above a B in all papers in first semester. This is based on my expereince: I'm pretty good at learning and have a 98th UMAT, and I had done Bio for CELs and heaps of human bio for HUBs .

Not trying to crush your dreams, just saying what people SHOULD have been saying to me before I started.

 

[Dinahlady]

To put it in perspective: I'm just about to graduate with a degree in chemistry. I love chemistry. Chemistry is like my favorite thing in the world. Its like my soulmate. And I got 68% in CHEM191 (HSFY chem), disqualifying me from applying for med in HSFY - because I didn't do it at school and so had no background and the huge amount of content was just too much to get up to speed with in such a short time.

 

[Facebook]

Its pretty much unheard of to not have done ALL those subjects at school and to get into med, let alone pass the course.

My impression has been that you can largely predict going in what the results will be coming out. Some excellent students will slip here or there, and some dark horses will emerge, but I did not see any examples of people coming in not already knowing a lot about the subjects already and then using Health Sci to learn, catch-up, and excel to the top of the class. It's one of my criticisms of Health Sci that they disingenuously present it as if its a level playing field where focused effort and ambition can propel you forward, but in practice 80% of the people enrolling never stand a chance. Of course HSFY can lead to wonderful outcomes beyond dent and med, but it's tough watching so many struggle with the year, feverously working towards an unrealistic goal, especially knowing that if they took med/dent off the scope then their year could be so much better, and their attention could be more focussed on an outcome that will ultimately advantage them for a grad application.

 

[Belezza]

Thank you guys so much for being so honest - it definitely puts things into perspective for me.

I'm thinking my best option would be to apply for a Bachelor of Science or Biomed instead, and apply to med-school as a graduate. By the sounds of it, I will probably struggle with HSFY. At least doing the bachelor, the grade expectation is lower (I think?)

How do you choose which Bachelor to do?! Is it possible that since I've done one year of Psychology at Waikato, I would be able to apply for a BSc second year, majoring in Psychology at Otago? And just add in the medical papers that are required? If so, do I only need to complete the papers that are required under HSFY to qualify for med school as a graduate?

 

[engapol]

It's one of my criticisms of Health Sci that they disingenuously present it as if its a level playing field where focused effort and ambition can propel you forward, but in practice 80% of the people enrolling never stand a chance.

Isn't it a bit naive to enter HSFY or OLY1, thinking that it's going to be anything but ultra-competitive? (if you want to do med or dent in otago)

 

[Dinahlady]

Thank you guys so much for being so honest - it definitely puts things into perspective for me.

I'm thinking my best option would be to apply for a Bachelor of Science or Biomed instead, and apply to med-school as a graduate. By the sounds of it, I will probably struggle with HSFY. At least doing the bachelor, the grade expectation is lower (I think?)

How do you choose which Bachelor to do?! Is it possible that since I've done one year of Psychology at Waikato, I would be able to apply for a BSc second year, majoring in Psychology at Otago? And just add in the medical papers that are required? If so, do I only need to complete the papers that are required under HSFY to qualify for med school as a graduate?

If you're going to do that I would possibly take the HSFY papers, or at least ones you think you could manage in your first year (e.g. HUBS etc), because if you want to get into med you're going to have to take them at some stage. Possibly take the Chemistry summer school paper (CHEM150) and a maths paper (MATH151) if you're rusty (would have been so helpful for phsi191).

You could even enroll and take HSFY and do your best. Take UMAT and see how you fair. As long as you pass the papers it means you wont have to do it again in your BSc or after your Bsc.

 

[Stuart]

Hi,

Possibly take the Chemistry summer school paper (CHEM150) and a maths paper (MATH151) if you're rusty (would have been so helpful for phsi191).

Just to clarify/things you might want to be aware of,
CHEM150:
(i) Students who have achieved 14 credits of NCEA level 2 chemistry or more, or any credits of NCEA level 3 chemistry (or their equivalents) will need Head of Department approval to enrol in the course. (ii) CHEM150 cannot be credited to a degree if CHEM191 or CHEM111 has been passed previously. (iii) No other Summer School paper may be taken concurrently with CHEM150.
https://neon.otago.ac.nz/chemistry/studying/chem150

MATH151:
(i) This paper is recommended for students with NCEA Level 2 mathematics or equivalent. It provides excellent preparation for students wishing to take MATH160. (ii) MATH151 cannot be credited together with MATH101-104, 160 or 170 passed previously or concurrently. (This is probably not important)
https://www.maths.otago.ac.nz/?undergraduate_papers=math151

CHEM191 can be a killer for many. PHSI191 also for some.

Gook luck with your future study, Belezza.

 

[Dinahlady]

They say that, but you might be able to persuade them to let you take another paper.....

 

[Stuart]

Possibly, largely depending on previous academic result but I think they clash also for 2016. I know for MATH151, 'a one-hour clash per week in lectures is permitted'. I have no idea about CHEM150.

Have you done MATH151, Dinahlady? Do you think it helps a lot for CHEM191?

 

[Dinahlady]

I did math151 after first year. I'm not sure for chem - probably if you don't understand logs. But it definitely would help for phsi !

 

[Blueglacier]

is the physics at otago similar to level 2 or level 3?

 

[rustyedges]

is the physics at otago similar to level 2 or level 3?

More similar to level two than three. There are six modules in physics at Otago: mechanics, electricity, waves, optics, bulk materials, and radiation. Not sure what they are still doing in NCEA physics, but bulk materials and radiation were the new ones for me at Otago (four years ago). But I think doing both level 2 and 3 physics will stand you in good stead for PHSI191.

 

[frootloop]

I wouldn't worry too much about the conceptual difficulty of PHSI191. I think I passed one achievement standard in level 3 physics, because I couldn't follow the maths or concepts in the slightest. Fast-forward a year and I got 89% in PHSI, and had very little trouble 'getting it'.

 

[Stuart]

is the physics at otago similar to level 2 or level 3?

Hi,

Have you not asked this question already?

If I recall correctly, you have already asked the question on HSFY (and OLY1) thread. Was the discussion not sufficient enough? Or are you seeking for further advice?