UMelb UMelb Medicine: Provisional Entry Questions and Discussion

[dotwingz]

Another concern is if the FFP students will be disadvantaged to find the internship after graduated.
I hope the internship is allocated based on the academic merit during the course not based on the fee type categories for the Australian resident students.
What do you think?

They won't be.

Technically they're not guaranteed an internship (unlike CSP/BMP students), but they will be treated the same in an application. As it stands no domestic student has not been offered an internship somewhere in Australia. In order for a singular full fee student to not be offered an internship, all international students must be rejected as for the most part states will only offer international students internships after all domestic applicants have a position.

One thing to consider however is that things can change in 7 years. Not that I think its likely that it will, but it could possibly be the case that in 7 years time there's not enough internships to go around so some domestic students (full fee) will go missing. I would be large amounts of money on this not being the case, and everything being fine, but it nonetheless could happen. Definitely worth shooting for a CSP place somewhere, and using FFP only as a back up.

PS... in the same vein, the way things are looking Victoria will (in my eyes) likely be randomly allocating internships once your child graduates. Every other state already does for domestic students, and my understanding is that some universities are making more and more of their courses pass/fail - making it harder for the 'merit' of students to be understood.

 

[A1]

Another concern is if the FFP students will be disadvantaged to find the internship after graduated.

Expanding on dotwingz 's post - The COAG Agreement guarantees CSP grads an internship by the State gov/Health in the state they graduate from (i.e. not a Federal guarantee). Internships for FFP graduates are at the discretion/needs of state Health.

In practice not any state's internship allocation makes a distinction between its CSP & domestic FFP graduates and this has not changed in the last 6 years I've looked into. They give domestic FFPs the same Priority 1 as CSPs, since all CSPs get internships all these FFPs do too.

I hope the internship is allocated based on the academic merit during the course not based on the fee type categories for the Australian resident students.

NSW allocation is by systematic optimising for most to get their higher preferences. Vic allocation is mostly on academic merits (with no disctinction between CSP/FFP) thus we often hear Vic graduates talk about their z-scores. Z-score is used so that graduates from UMelb, Monash, Deakin can be cross-ranked independent of how harsh/generous each school awards marks to its students.

 

[B1qShaq]

How hard is it as a chancellor's scholar to fail the 3rd year MMI? I've heard anecdotal evidence from both sides that 1. It's in the universities incentive to pass you (since they want more high ATAR students), however, that there have been people in the past who have failed. How 'guaranteed' is it per se, when compared to an undergraduate medicine course?

 

[HookShotKing]

How hard is it as a chancellor's scholar to fail the 3rd year MMI? I've heard anecdotal evidence from both sides that 1. It's in the universities incentive to pass you (since they want more high ATAR students), however, that there have been people in the past who have failed. How 'guaranteed' is it per se, when compared to an undergraduate medicine course?

As far as I have heard and read, it's very very hard to fail the MMI. Almost everyone passes all stations, and you need to pass minimum 5/8 stations for entry.

 

[Apue]

My understanding is that only Uni of Melb offers the FFP spots for domestic students, I noticed that Flinders has put the full fee cost for their MD course. Their full fee is much cheaper (55K/yr), so I can tell Uni of Melb is quite greedy for tuition!

Postgraduate courses - Doctor of Medicine - Flinders University

www.flinders.edu.au

 

[A1]

My understanding is that only Uni of Melb offers the FFP spots for domestic students, I noticed that Flinders has put the full fee cost for their MD course.

We'll wait/see if Flinders starts to offer FFPs to domestic GAMSAT applicants.

If not then I think it relates to this, the NT cohort within Flinders MD


Note the words Fee Paying and NTBMS which is an NT-specific Bonded scheme. Being non-CSP the NT gov pays its full fees, in return the graduate is obligated to serve 4 years RoS in the NT.

(Whereas the CSP Bonded requires RoS in rural/regional areas, not state/territory specific).

 

[meowmeow11]

Hi, I’m planning to study biomedicine this year as a pathway into FFP medicine (ofc still taking gamsat and trying for CSP or BMP) but I was wondering if it would be a good idea to take up the biomedicine/optometry package rather than just biomedicine, considering that I have not much interest in optometry at the moment. Would doing the package degree interfere any way with a ‘guaranteed’ FFP spot in medicine? What would be some drawbacks of the package degree?

 

[Kai897]

Hi, I’m planning to study biomedicine this year as a pathway into FFP medicine (ofc still taking gamsat and trying for CSP or BMP) but I was wondering if it would be a good idea to take up the biomedicine/optometry package rather than just biomedicine, considering that I have not much interest in optometry at the moment. Would doing the package degree interfere any way with a ‘guaranteed’ FFP spot in medicine? What would be some drawbacks of the package degree?

Hi meow, just wondering, to aid in my decision, what your ATAR was and whether you got an offers to study medicine else where?

 

[meowmeow11]

Hi Kai, I don’t really feel comfortable disclosing that information publicly, but feel free to send me a private message or let me know your email if you think it would be helpful.

 

[Mbk]

Ok, so I've looked everywhere online and I can't be bothered to anymore so I hope someone can answer this for me.

The pathway I want to talk about is the infamous:

1. Guaranteed Full Fee Entry (current University of Melbourne students who entered their undergraduate degree at the University of Melbourne with an ATAR of 99.00 or above).

From what I have seen or heard in this forum is that it isn't really guaranteed but just easier as the interview to an offer conversion is still capped as there is only a limited number of med spaces ofc. Now, a question I have been wondering is, if I do the the biomedicine course (or any other), is it then possible to take the interview during first year studies or even before? Or, do you have to finish the whole degree, then take the interview and potentially get rejected and thereby spend 3 years on a degree that isn't exactly the best for finding jobs afterwards?

I feel like if we could take the interview ealier on (before finishing the biomed degree), it would make it a lot more secure knowning that you have a spot in med after achieving a WAM above 75.

Thanks guys

 

[jasmine.p]

Ok, so I've looked everywhere online and I can't be bothered to anymore so I hope someone can answer this for me.

The pathway I want to talk about is the infamous:

1. Guaranteed Full Fee Entry (current University of Melbourne students who entered their undergraduate degree at the University of Melbourne with an ATAR of 99.00 or above).

From what I have seen or heard in this forum is that it isn't really guaranteed but just easier as the interview to an offer conversion is still capped as there is only a limited number of med spaces ofc. Now, a question I have been wondering is, if I do the the biomedicine course (or any other), is it then possible to take the interview during first year studies or even before? Or, do you have to finish the whole degree, then take the interview and potentially get rejected and thereby spend 3 years on a degree that isn't exactly the best for finding jobs afterwards?

I feel like if we could take the interview ealier on (before finishing the biomed degree), it would make it a lot more secure knowning that you have a spot in med after achieving a WAM above 75.

Thanks guys

Pretty sure you have do you interview during your last year of your undergraduate degree, or immediately after finishing it.

 

[Mbk]

Pretty sure you have do you interview during your last year of your undergraduate degree, or immediately after finishing it.

Damn, thats tough. So the interview is really just a way to cut down the amount of people that get in. So is it even worth going through this pathway of biomed or would it be smarter to do another degree (that is more marketable) in Melb Uni and then try to transfer in via the "Guaranteed Full Fee Entry" program?

 

[HookShotKing]

Damn, thats tough. So the interview is really just a way to cut down the amount of people that get in. So is it even worth going through this pathway of biomed or would it be smarter to do another degree (that is more marketable) in Melb Uni and then try to transfer in via the "Guaranteed Full Fee Entry" program?

AFAIK Biomed seems to be the ideal choice if you wanna do the guaranteed pathway, in terms of subjects and helpfulness in the interviews, etc.

 

[A1]

I feel like if we could take the interview ealier on (before finishing the biomed degree), it would make it a lot more secure knowning that you have a spot in med after achieving a WAM above 75.

Interesting you ask that because you know what ... 6-7 years ago UMelb used to do this interview as you entered first year (so you'd know to follow through or not), then purposely moved it to 3rd year only. Being cynical I've suspected they want to reel in the 99.0+s but retain control of how many will get into the FFP.

========
To justify my cynicism see in this Parliament article
> Medical places

"If an institution is allocated medical CSPs (that's UMelb) in its funding agreement, the agreement usually also includes restrictions on enrolling full fee‑paying domestic students in medical courses (be they at undergraduate or postgraduate level), although a small allowance is sometimes provided."

The underlined bits explain, other than private unis, UMelb is the only CSP med school that admits domestic FFPs and the small allowance is around 50 places. Victoria alone produces ~750 99.0+ a year, just 100 of these doing the pathway will mean UMelb needs to use the MMI to prune them by half.

 

[Mbk]

AFAIK Biomed seems to be the ideal choice if you wanna do the guaranteed pathway, in terms of subjects and helpfulness in the interviews, etc.

Ahh thanks.

I also want to shed some light on one question that someone asked ealier but wasn't answered.

Basically, if I got thorugh with the Biomed route, can I apply to both Med and Den in UniMelb

That way, if I don't get into med via the "guaranteed" pathway (ie: I fail the interview) I can then apply to den as my "backup". Thanks again. And if so, how does this work with limited spaces?

 

[jasmine.p]

Damn, thats tough. So the interview is really just a way to cut down the amount of people that get in. So is it even worth going through this pathway of biomed or would it be smarter to do another degree (that is more marketable) in Melb Uni and then try to transfer in via the "Guaranteed Full Fee Entry" program?

There are a few options you could take:

1. Take a gap year to improve ATAR and redo the UCAT (although for a lot of universities, including Monash, you can't redo the MMI)
2. Take the GFF route at UniMelb and try to get a CSP place through the normal route, and otherwise do your best to pass the MMI interview and get a FFP.
3. Do an undergraduate degree at Monash University, which means you can apply for all graduate medicine courses afterwards (Monash graduate medicine is only open to students that did their undergraduate degree at Monash).
4. There are also some universities that people can apply to if they've already done one year at another university (UNSW, JMP, and I think JCU).

What you choose really depends on where you fell down. If you got to the interview stage and think you had a bad interview, I'd go for option 2 and in that time try to improve your interview skills. If you fell down on the UCAT but think you had a good MMI, I'd go for option 1.

I got in immediately after high school, so don't have personal experience with these options, however if you wanted to explore them more there are dedicated forums for a lot of them.

 

[Mbk]

Interesting you ask that because you know what ... 6-7 years ago UMelb used to do this interview as you entered first year (so you'd know to follow through or not), then purposely moved it to 3rd year only. Being cynical I've suspected they want to reel in the 99.0+s but retain control of how many will get into the FFP.

========
To justify my cynicism see in this Parliament article
> Medical places

"If an institution is allocated medical CSPs (that's UMelb) in its funding agreement, the agreement usually also includes restrictions on enrolling full fee‑paying domestic students in medical courses (be they at undergraduate or postgraduate level), although a small allowance is sometimes provided."

The underlined bits explain, other than private unis, UMelb is the only CSP med school that admits domestic FFPs and the small allowance is around 50 places. Victoria alone produces ~750 99.0+ a year, just 100 of these doing the pathway will mean UMelb needs to use the MMI to prune them by half.

Thanks for the reply, I agree with you. It's def also a money move as it forces people to do all 3 years for a chance at med

 

[HookShotKing]

Ahh thanks.

I also want to shed some light on one question that someone asked ealier but wasn't answered.

Basically, if I got thorugh with the Biomed route, can I apply to both Med and Den in UniMelb

That way, if I don't get into med via the "guaranteed" pathway (ie: I fail the interview) I can then apply to den as my "backup". Thanks again. And if so, how does this work with limited spaces?

Was thinking this too, and I believe that you will get a spot in dent as long as you have the required grades. But everyone I've talked has suggested going somewhere else for dent or applying for lateral entry at another uni e.g. Griffith

 

[jasmine.p]

Ahh thanks.

I also want to shed some light on one question that someone asked ealier but wasn't answered.

Basically, if I got thorugh with the Biomed route, can I apply to both Med and Den in UniMelb

That way, if I don't get into med via the "guaranteed" pathway (ie: I fail the interview) I can then apply to den as my "backup". Thanks again. And if so, how does this work with limited spaces?

Yes, you can also use the guaranteed entry for medicine. There is no interview so I believe you will actually be guaranteed entry assuming you meet the 75% WAM requirement for your undergraduate degree.

 

[Mbk]

Was thinking this too, and I believe that you will get a spot in dent as long as you have the required grades. But everyone I've talked has suggested going somewhere else for dent or applying for lateral entry at another uni e.g. Griffith

Thanks for your help guys, I appreciate it.

Just one last question, I am not too familar with the term lateral entry, does that simply mean internal transfer?

And yeah I wish we knew more about dent in UniMelb, has anyone called MelbUni about what happens if "too many people apply" with guaranteed entry to den?

If not, I can do it ltr.

Thanks once again guys.