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USYD DClinDent (Oral Surgery)

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Gogi

Member
If I was in charge of the RACDS training program... 🤔
Requirements to getting on the program would be: 2 years general experience (including some experience in OMS as an assistant/observing/etc for at least a 2-3 weeks intensive (externship) at min so people know what they are getting into), Pass in Primary exam, and an interview (Panel: OMS, dental academic, community member, and a psychologist) :)

Then the structure would be as follows:
1. DClinDent (OMS) 4 year program followed by eligibility for specialist registration.
2. Optional advance standing into medical school for those interested (2-3 years) (during this time the now OMS specialist/med student would also have a part-time OMS senior registrar position so they don't loose their hand skills/clinical skills)
3. Internship (1-year)
4. Optional Clinical Fellowship in: H/N, Cleft/Craniofacial, Cosmetic (1-2 years)
I like this.
Can you be in charge of the RACDS OMS selection committee please.

Anyone signed up for tomorrow's info session on the NUS OMS program?
I have actually!
 
I think in those cases its fine. There is of course always someone who wishes they had done medicine or another career other than dentistry or a dental specialty.

However, in most cases the only people who would ever consider doing both dental and medical degrees would be only for OMS. In my opinion the older OMS program in Australia (and by older I mean only 7-8 years ago) used to be a better structure for the applicants than it is even now.

Now: RACDS provides NO support for anyone. Just says "go get both degrees, internship, and general surgery year all on your own and come back to us and apply for our 4 year program when you've ticked all the boxes" (which is really unreasonable to ask this of people when you know there is going to be a bunch of people wasting their time doing it all). (Plus total training time "if" you get onto the program ends up being about 11-12 years! ... and that's before you even get to the subspecialty clinical fellowship level which US/Canadian grads can start after year 4 or 6).

Only 7-8 years ago: the RACDS would accept you onto the OMS program after 2 years of general dental working experience and RACDS Primary exam pass (same as all other dental specialties), then you would do 2 years of BST (basic surgical training), then you would do medical school and internship, and then return to complete a further 2-3 years afterwards (for a total of 8-9 years); which yes, is still longer than the USA or Canada (but at least you had the security of knowing doing medical school was not a complete waste of your time as you were already accepted onto the training program.
Agreed with these points. My only reason for applying for med is to do OMFS.
To be honest the years of study isn't the most concerning part for me, as it's just a journey to do something I really want to do. Especially since in Australia, there is very little financial cost to going down this path (apart from the opportunity cost of not working as a dentist), since the medical degree is HECS Supported (~$40k in total), then all the subsequent years after that, we actually get PAID to train (intern+SIG+OMS). Very different to other countries such as UK and USA where even the medical degree itself would be cost prohibitive, followed by the cost of training afterwards

Even if the duration stayed at 11-12 years, but there was certainty of becoming an OMS after commencing the journey, then I would still do it (obviously would prefer a shorter duration but it is what it is)

What concerns me is that there is so much uncertainty even after committing to such a long journey to become an eligible applicant


If I was in charge of the RACDS training program... 🤔
Would be great if it would change in the near future. Perhaps it will, if the Dclindent(OS) becomes disruptive to the bottom line and popularity of working OMFS's?
 
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Hey SquirtleSquad,

It actually differs every year depending on the number of applicants who managed to pass the FRACDS(OMS) etc, but on average it is about 7-9 every year. Smith88, pretty good guess!
This year however due to COVID19, they only accepted 5 applicants, which means its only going to get harder from next year.



You'd be surprised how many people do them.
In 2018, I think it was roughly 35-40 eligible applicants who applied for the OMS program - these are applicants who have done both medicine, dentistry, general surgical experience as a medical doctor etc.
People do them mostly do pursue OMFS, i have seen the odd one who does it purely to change their careers entirely.



You are absolutely right, if only that sort of pathway existed in Australia/NZ... The uncertainty does occasionally creep in :/
Thanks Gogi,
35-40 sounds insanely high for such a limited amount of spots. Kind of depressing to know to be honest.
Are you already on the OMFS training program at the moment? Best of luck with the training if you are, and I hope COVID hasn't spoiled the fun for you 😛
 

Gogi

Member
Thanks Gogi,
35-40 sounds insanely high for such a limited amount of spots. Kind of depressing to know to be honest.
Are you already on the OMFS training program at the moment? Best of luck with the training if you are, and I hope COVID hasn't spoiled the fun for you 😛
Thanks SquirtleSquad!
I'm not on the OMFS training program yet, getting more experience under my belt!
It does worry me to be honest!
But other surgical specialities in medicine are similar if not more competitive in getting in :(
 

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Smith88

Member
But other surgical specialities in medicine are similar if not more competitive in getting in :(
Again, I have no issue with it being competitive.

Its the wasted time doing the med program for a "dental specialty" that is the issue. ... some may argue that a lot of people have to do a "second degree" to make themselves more competitive to get accepted to specialty training. However, doing a masters degree and/or some research to make yourself more competitive (even say an MSc/MPhil or PhD) is entirely different than completing a second undergraduate degree in another field.

Example: A doctor applying to get into ENT may complete a 1-2 year Masters degree (in ENT related research) to make themselves more competitive, but they are not going to do 3-4 years of dental school, and a dental internship year, etc. with no guarantees of getting into ENT (which is the equivalent of what RACDS's OMS program is asking for).
 
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Smith88

Member
I'm not on the OMFS training program yet, getting more experience under my belt!
How are you getting more experience at present? Do you have a dental officer job in an OMS dept? Any research?

Have you considered doing a 1-year OMS internship overseas?
Texas
https://dentistry.uth.edu/students/docs/OMS+internship+information+2019.pdf?language_id=1
Virginia
Boston
Iowa:
Maryland:
Harvard:
Rutgers:
West Virginia:



McGill (Canada)

Dalhousie (Canada)

Also American OMS programs are now wanting applicants to sit the CBSE exam:

Another forum (american) with info on OMS internships:



I have actually!
How did it go?
 
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Smith88

Member
University of Toronto (Canada) has a 1-year OMS internship program. Presently accepting applications (close November 1)


The Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery Internship Program

Important dates
  • Applications close: 1 November
  • Internship runs: 1 July to 30 June
The Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery (OMFS) internship program is a one year program designed specifically for advanced training in OMFS with the goal towards eventual specializing.

You will shadow a junior resident with didactic participation at Sunnybrook and Mount Sinai hospitals and follow the Hospital Dental Residency curriculum.

Who this is for and eligibility
For Doctor of Dental Surgery (DDS) graduates who want to get some experience in oral and maxillofacial surgery before committing to a specialized program.

You must have:

  • successfully completed the Doctor of Dental Surgery Program at the University of Toronto, or an equivalent recognized dental program (Australian and New Zealand dental graduates are accredited in Canada for registration!). However, you still have to apply for a visa and apply for and get your dental license prior to starting the program. (which is doable)
  • acquired your Educational Certificate or General Certificate of Registration (licence) to practice in Ontario from Royal College of Dental Surgeons of Ontario (RCDSO).
How to apply for the OMFS Internship Program
Applications close November 1.

To apply, complete all the steps below, sending all documents to:

Admissions Office
Faculty of Dentistry
124 Edward Street, Room 104
Toronto, ON M5G 1G6
Canada
admissions@dentistry.utoronto.ca

  1. Complete the application form (paper version – pdf)
  2. Pay the non-refundable application service fee of $275 CDN (money order or bank draft payable to the University of Toronto). Pay online by credit card on the Student Services Payment page.
  3. Your Curriculum Vitae or Resume.
  4. A one- to two-page statement outlining your interest in the program. Include information on your background, interest, aptitude and ability for the internship program.
  5. Arrange for your official dental school transcripts to be sent to the Admissions Office in a sealed envelope directly from the issuing institutions.
  6. Ask two referees to send letters of reference in sealed envelopes.
Interviews
We will contact you by email in March.

If you are unsuccessful, we will let you know. If you are successful, you will be invited to an interview.

Registration and payment of fees
You must pay the registration fee of $1,400 (CAD) to register in the program.

You even get Paid!
You will receive a stipend of approximately $45,000 CAD (equiv to $47,500 AUD)

Toronto is a good one because they have a 4 year OMS program with an MSc degree. Or a 7 year OMS program with a PhD (they don't offer med as a combined option).

They also accept internationals.

If you were able to get onto the 1 year internship program and impress the hell out of the team, they might just keep you on the next year into the full OMS program when you reapply for it.



Also, looks like there is an Otago dental school (NZ) graduate in the OMS program at McGill also in Canada.
Dr Omar Alzarooni, BDS (Otago, NZ)
OMS trainee McGill University Canada
If anyone is interested in doing OMS in Canada, maybe this guy can also provide guidance.
 
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Smith88 your input in this forum has been immense!

Can I ask you - for a general dentist with several years private practice experience, what steps would you recommend to help become competitive when applying for a course like the USyd DClinDent course or an overseas OMS course like the one you completed. If you can give us some of your personal experiences that would also be great.

Many thanks in advance.
 

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