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[2020 entry and beyond] Guide to Bonded Medical Places

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I mean, it's pretty clear cut - you either fulfill your ROS or you cough up the cash. As for where you'd place BMPs on your preferences (some unis such as Adelaide and Monash have separate course codes for CSPs and BMPs), that's entirely at your discretion.
Apologies for my ignorance. I think you summed it quite well. I wasn't aware that CSPs and BMPs could/might be treated differently. Is this true?
What do you mean by “treated differently”? By who?
Apologies, I mean the separate course codes for CSPs and BMPs.
 

Crow

Moderator Band 🦧
Moderator
Apologies, I mean the separate course codes for CSPs and BMPs.
I still don’t know what you mean. Are you saying you didn’t realise some unis separate the course codes for CSP and BMP? I think UQ, Monash and Adelaide are the only few that do that (but happy to be corrected here).
 

LMG!

Moderator
Staff Member of the Year 2019
I still don’t know what you mean. Are you saying you didn’t realise some unis separate the course codes for CSP and BMP? I think UQ, Monash and Adelaide are the only few that do that (but happy to be corrected here).
In news that will surprise no one: for 2017 entry UTAS had them separated. For 2018, they did not. I know this because I applied both years. For 2019 they went back to separate as we had someone here who only got a BMP despite their very high scores because they accidentally didn’t select CSP.

Who knows what they’ve done this year!
 

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I still don’t know what you mean. Are you saying you didn’t realise some unis separate the course codes for CSP and BMP? I think UQ, Monash and Adelaide are the only few that do that (but happy to be corrected here).
Yes, I didn't know that some unis separate the course codes for CSP and BMP.
 

Misa

Member
If you are unsure just opt in for now. If when you receive a bonded offer and at that stage don't want it you can decline (and make someone really happy to inherit it).

Or you can go through with the degree then not serve the Return of service. Penalty for that is you pay back the gov subsidy for your med course. About $25k times 5 years of study = $125K, only a third compared to Bond and you will have worked a few years to save up to pay.
If you can afford it honestly that doesn’t sound like a bad deal 😂 a place in med for 25k a year which you only have to pay when you finish your degree so there’s time to make atleast some of the money
 

Crow

Moderator Band 🦧
Moderator
If you can afford it honestly that doesn’t sound like a bad deal 😂 a place in med for 25k a year which you only have to pay when you finish your degree so there’s time to make atleast some of the money
This is my viewpoint on this (which I actually feel pretty strongly about): [2020 entry and beyond] Guide to Bonded Medical Places

I suggest anyone considering this to think about it from a different perspective.
 

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CristinaYang

Monash I 🐬
Newbie of the Year 2019
If you can afford it honestly that doesn’t sound like a bad deal 😂 a place in med for 25k a year which you only have to pay when you finish your degree so there’s time to make atleast some of the money
This completely defeats the purpose though especially considering how it’s supposed to minimise the oversaturation of doctors in metro areas.
 

LMG!

Moderator
Staff Member of the Year 2019
This completely defeats the purpose though especially considering how it’s supposed to minimise the oversaturation of doctors in metro areas.
Actually, it’s supposed to address the shortage of doctors in rural and remote regions.

The (no doubt minimal) effect it has on metro areas is just a by-product.
 

Helmut

äaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 🤡
If you can afford it honestly that doesn’t sound like a bad deal 😂 a place in med for 25k a year which you only have to pay when you finish your degree so there’s time to make atleast some of the money
You're also (a) breaching a contract you signed in good faith, (b) wasting the government's money, and (c) robbing the rural community of a desperately needed healthcare professional (i.e. someone who would have actually completed the RoS if they had been able to have your bonded place). Doesn't sound like such a great option to me.
 

chinaski

Regular Member
If you can afford it honestly that doesn’t sound like a bad deal 😂 a place in med for 25k a year which you only have to pay when you finish your degree so there’s time to make atleast some of the money
Sounds like a way to make a financial rod for your own back. You don't make a mint as a JMO (saving that amount would take a long time) and taking out a loan at that point in your life should be for things to get ahead in life (eg a mortgage) rather than paying off a government penalty. This would be one way of putting yourself on the financial back foot - unless you've got the Bank of Mum and Dad to fall back on, one shouldn't be speaking so blithely about the prospect of paying off such a huge penalty!
 

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LMG!

Moderator
Staff Member of the Year 2019
Yep sorry that’s where I was going but I kinda lost my train of thought there. How do they (the government) know that BMPs will be effective in the long term? Like after the ROS is up does the government just assume that those doctors might decide to work rurally?
I think the general consensus is that they don’t know for absolute sure but they’re hoping? I’ve not been around the system long enough to know how it has played out to date (and don’t have a BMP myself so haven’t actually looked too much into it, I’m afraid). chinaski would probably be able to best speak to this.

That said, it’s not the only scheme in place hoping to increase the rural workforce, increased participation by rural students (as achieved by quotas) and the John Flynn Placement Program also operate on the notion that rural exposure increases the likelihood that people will practice rurally. Also, I'm not sure about other universities, but UTAS has a pretty strong focus on rural practice. We've done 'rural week' in both first and second year where we do placements in rural locations, and I think we do so again next year, and there are assignments and research items that need to be completed in conjunction with these, as well as formal teaching, that informs students about rural practice.

ETA: I'm going to have a quick google search and then get back to you :D
 

CristinaYang

Monash I 🐬
Newbie of the Year 2019
In news that will surprise no one: for 2017 entry UTAS had them separated. For 2018, they did not. I know this because I applied both years. For 2019 they went back to separate as we had someone here who only got a BMP despite their very high scores because they accidentally didn’t select CSP.

Who knows what they’ve done this year!
I’m abt 80% sure when I started my UTAS application there were two course code options CSP & BMP but then before Sep 30th it became one option. Anyways I only applied for the one in the end and I checked a couple of times so yeah pretty sure.
 

LMG!

Moderator
Staff Member of the Year 2019
I’m abt 80% sure when I started my UTAS application there were two course code options CSP & BMP but then before Sep 30th it became one option. Anyways I only applied for the one in the end and I checked a couple of times so yeah pretty sure.
So I typed 'impact of bonded medical places on Australian rural workforce' into google and got this MSO forum page as the response :cool::rolleyes:
 

chinaski

Regular Member
I think the general consensus is that they don’t know for absolute sure but they’re hoping? I’ve not been around the system long enough to know how it has played out to date (and don’t have a BMP myself so haven’t actually looked too much into it, I’m afraid). chinaski would probably be able to best speak to this.
Most of the data underpinning this is based on the fact that medical students with rural backgrounds or experience tend to express a desire to practice rurally, moreso than urban colleagues. Take note, that there isn't hard evidence to show that a *desire* to work rurally actually practically translates into more people working rurally.

Anecdotally, I have seen very little evidence of any bonded schemes making a whit of difference to rural workforces, and that's really not so surprising because the pros and cons of working in regional areas are very much universal (ie the cons affect people with rural backgrounds too!). The issue of workforce maldistribution and service provision is complex and it's not going to be fixed by a simple notion like a bond. Similarly, provision of massive financial incentives for doctors to shift into under-resourced areas hasn't worked, either.
 

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A1

Admissions Speculator
Moderator
You're also (a) breaching a contract you signed in good faith
The contract itself has a provision on breaching
"If You breach the Agreement after completion of Your Medical Course but prior to having completed Your Return of Service Period then You will be required to repay the amounts the Commonwealth has paid the University for Your Bonded Medical Place plus Interest as a debt due to the Commonwealth."

thus after repaying you have complied with the contract you signed in good faith.

See clause 5.6 > https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/6B5C46289ECA3D51CA257EF9000CFE8D/$File/Sample Deed of Agreement 2019.pdf
 

Helmut

äaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 🤡
The contract itself has a provision on breaching
"If You breach the Agreement after completion of Your Medical Course but prior to having completed Your Return of Service Period then You will be required to repay the amounts the Commonwealth has paid the University for Your Bonded Medical Place plus Interest as a debt due to the Commonwealth."

thus after repaying you have complied with the contract you signed in good faith.

See clause 5.6 > https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/6B5C46289ECA3D51CA257EF9000CFE8D/$File/Sample Deed of Agreement 2019.pdf
Good to know, thanks A1.
 

TKAO

Who knows what the future holds?
Valued Member
The contract itself has a provision on breaching
"If You breach the Agreement after completion of Your Medical Course but prior to having completed Your Return of Service Period then You will be required to repay the amounts the Commonwealth has paid the University for Your Bonded Medical Place plus Interest as a debt due to the Commonwealth."

thus after repaying you have complied with the contract you signed in good faith.

See clause 5.6 > https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/6B5C46289ECA3D51CA257EF9000CFE8D/$File/Sample Deed of Agreement 2019.pdf
What do you think the interest rate is like on the so-called debt? That could turn the tables a lot more than they have been already.
 

A1

Admissions Speculator
Moderator
What do you think the interest rate is like on the so-called debt? That could turn the tables a lot more than they have been already.
HECS debt is increased by the official inflation rate, if we call that interest then it's probably the same for BMP debt.
 

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