[2020 entry and beyond] Guide to Bonded Medical Places

[ucatboy]

The opportunity cost of spending two extra years in medical school is the salary of your last two years as a doctor before you retire or die - these final two years of working would be "inaccessible" to you had you started working two years later. And I'm fairlyyy certain that this amount will exceed the 125k BMP debt. So I stand by my words that it makes more sense financially to take the 5-year-BMP over the 7-year-CSP

Sure, 125k debt is bad, but is it as bad as two years of sacrificed income (which could be in the hundreds of thousands)?

 

[chinaski]

Sure, 125k debt is bad, but is it as bad as two years of sacrificed income (which could be in the hundreds of thousands)?

I think the whole discussion relies on a very naively-linear idea about career progression and life goals, frankly.

 

[Totolier]

Do you earn money working for those three years for the bonded medical place. IF so, I think it would be worth paying off the debt to get back 3 years of your life. Also if you have nice parents they can chip in too!

 

[chinaski]

Do you earn money working for those three years for the bonded medical place. IF so, I think it would be worth paying off the debt to get back 3 years of your life. Also if you have nice parents they can chip in too!

Yes, you get paid when you work as a doctor. Sooner or later, you have to stop depending on your parents to offset or pay your debts - as an adult, it's reasonable to be expected to stand on your own two feet. If anything, it's also good for one's self-respect to live independently.

 

[Crow]

Do you earn money working for those three years for the bonded medical place. IF so, I think it would be worth paying off the debt to get back 3 years of your life. Also if you have nice parents they can chip in too!

Yes, you earn money for working. I don’t think anyone is disagreeing that if you have a lot of money or the bank of mum and dad that you could pay it off to avoid your obligations - merely that it would be a really sh*t thing to do for reasons already highlighted.

It’s also a pretty extreme view that you’d be losing three years of your life if you took on a BMP. For all you know you could end up with an internship allocation in a rural area anyway. Some of you will have less say over where you end up working than you think you will.

Also worth pointing out that if you have a BMP, you literally wouldn’t have a place in medicine if it wasn’t for the BMP scheme.

 

[jq99]

I am a UQ provisional student who just finished first year undergrad. Does the new BMP scheme apply to me? I am unsure as technically I enter 'provisional medicine pathway' in 2019 but I only enter the MD in 2022.

 

[A1]

I am a UQ provisional student who just finished first year undergrad. Does the new BMP scheme apply to me? I am unsure as technically I enter 'provisional medicine pathway' in 2019 but I only enter the MD in 2022.

Presumably UQ did not ask you to sign a BMP contract at beginning of 2019?
If not then you will sign one in 2022 and unfortunately that will mean the new contract terms.

EtA: IMO that's unfair since you accepted the BMP prov offer with the terms you knew of then. The gov should allow the unis to honour the old terms to provisional students.

 

[Lozza]

What would everyone recommend taking? Provisional entry via UQ Bonded or Griffith? I have a UCAT score that will definitely result in a Bonded place at UQ if I get in, but a very strong chance of getting into Griffith (Better than UQ). Before I noticed the changes to the Rural Adjustment Scheme (Only yesterday!), I had UQ as my top preference and Griffith second. I didn't mind doing one year of rural work, but three years is insane. So now I'm thinking of placing Griffith number one and UQ second. Thoughts?

 

[DrDrLMG!]

What would everyone recommend taking? Provisional entry via UQ Bonded or Griffith? I have a UCAT score that will definitely result in a Bonded place at UQ if I get in, but a very strong chance of getting into Griffith (Better than UQ). Before I noticed the changes to the Rural Adjustment Scheme (Only yesterday!), I had UQ as my top preference and Griffith second. I didn't mind doing one year of rural work, but three years is insane. So now I'm thinking of placing Griffith number one and UQ second. Thoughts?

I feel like 87th%ile (UCAT)* will struggle to get even a bonded offer, tbh, and certainly not a CSP, so if you want to open up your options to a CSP, then you'll need to put Griffith first, or count on not getting a UQ offer, in which case, you may as well swap them around anyway.

*assuming non-rural

 

[Crow]

What would everyone recommend taking? Provisional entry via UQ Bonded or Griffith? I have a UCAT score that will definitely result in a Bonded place at UQ if I get in, but a very strong chance of getting into Griffith (Better than UQ). Before I noticed the changes to the Rural Adjustment Scheme (Only yesterday!), I had UQ as my top preference and Griffith second. I didn't mind doing one year of rural work, but three years is insane. So now I'm thinking of placing Griffith number one and UQ second. Thoughts?

Changes to the rural adjustment scheme at Griffith, you mean? Are you a rural applicant? Be aware that you may end up needing to work 3 or more years rural even if you don’t get a bonded offer - it seems a lot of people aren’t aware that they’ll have less choice in where they’ll ultimately end up working than they think.

 

[A1]

Be aware that you may end up needing to work 3 or more years rural even if you don’t get a bonded offer

How would Griffith enforce this 3 rural years to a non-BMP grad?

Once starting internship they are gov employees, Griffith wouldn't have a say on where they must work.

 

[Crow]

How would Griffith enforce this 3 rural years to a non-BMP grad?

They wouldn’t. I’m talking about internship allocations for one (people get “shafted” rurally every year despite their preferences due to supply/demand imbalances), rural secondments associated with any Queensland JMO job (and probably any other states/territories) and the fact that (as chinaski often tells us) there are such limited metro consultant positions now that people may have no choice but to work regionally/rurally if they want to work in a specific specialty.

 

[Lozza]

I'm a non-rural applicant and pretty confident that I won't get into UQ with an 87th percentile, but there is a very slim chance because of the smaller QLD cohort. I'm just wondering whether the prestige associated with UQ over Griffith is worth being Bonded?

 

[A1]

I'm a non-rural applicant and pretty confident that I won't get into UQ with an 87th percentile, but there is a very slim chance because of the smaller QLD cohort. I'm just wondering whether the prestige associated with UQ over Griffith is worth being Bonded?

Many will tell you uni prestige means practically nothing in Med, since you are guaranteed a job on graduation and progression from there is entirely on you not the uni. I will add another factor that at UQ you'd be in a cohort of almost 500 (incl int'ls) whereas Griffith is less than half that.

 

[Crow]

I'm a non-rural applicant and pretty confident that I won't get into UQ with an 87th percentile, but there is a very slim chance because of the smaller QLD cohort. I'm just wondering whether the prestige associated with UQ over Griffith is worth being Bonded?

Completely agree with A1’s reply. Worth noting if you weren’t already aware that there is still a possibility of ending up with a bonded place if you take a Griffith offer; Griffith allocates CSP/BMP places to provisional entry students at the end of the undergraduate degree based on GPA, so the bottom 28.5% of the cohort gets a BMP.

 

[dotwingz]

Hey, ive got a few questions about bonded places if you dont mind.

1. If you break BMP you are required to pay the govt back, does this essentially place you in a FFP place scenario, or are there extra costs involved. For example (using the JMP) would you pay the difference between your tuition and the course fee?

2. Would I be correct in saying that completing your JMO years in a rural area due to taking a bonded place (with only 18 months out of the 24 months contributing to the RoS because of the 50% rule) would put you in a better position to take on a surgical fellowship due to the practical experience gained working in a rural area.

Thanks

 

[Crow]

2. Would I be correct in saying that completing your JMO years in a rural area due to taking a bonded place (with only 18 months out of the 24 months contributing to the RoS because of the 50% rule) would put you in a better position to take on a surgical fellowship due to the practical experience gained working in a rural area.

No, it's the opposite from what I've gathered. The majority of surgeries don't occur in rural areas, and a most rural hospitals probably lack the resources and/or staff for specialised surgeries to occur (not to mention the lack of demand).

 

[dotwingz]

No, it's the opposite from what I've gathered. The majority of surgeries don't occur in rural areas, and a most rural hospitals probably lack the resources and/or staff for specialised surgeries to occur (not to mention the lack of demand).

Very true. However, I was under the impression that both residents and interns do more 'scut-work' then meaningful surgeries. By being a JMO in a rural area i would think you would experience a more stressful and actionful first years which you could utilise for a fellowship interview. I think I might ask around

 

[A1]

1. If you break BMP you are required to pay the govt back, does this essentially place you in a FFP place scenario, or are there extra costs involved.

If you pay the gov back it's about 25k/year before interest. Plus your 11k HECS contribution/debt = 36k/year. This is about the same as Notre Dame FFP but significantly less than UoM/MQ/Bond FFP.

Another difference is you are guaranteed an internship, FFPs are technically not (although none have missed out to date).

 

[dotwingz]

If you pay the gov back it's about 25k/year before interest. Plus your 11k HECS contribution/debt = 36k/year. This is about the same as Notre Dame FFP but significantly less than UoM/MQ/Bond FFP.

Another difference is you are guaranteed an internship, FFPs are technically not (although none have missed out to date).

Wow ok, thanks. That's fantastic to know.