Flinders Flinders Medicine: Provisional Entry General Discussion

[LeSpicyGinger]

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Does anyone know whether Flinders looks at applicants' SACE aggregate or ATAR when making offers? I was just curious to know whether Flinders will favour those with a SACE aggregate of 90.00 than those with a 89.30 while they both equate to 99.95 ATAR. Thanks.

Hmm, that's a good questions as when I check the website its not too specific. If you want the best answer, I would recommend calling the student recruitment office.

However, based off my own understanding, Flinders takes your ATAR and your UCAT score sort of separates you from other people.

 

[ucatboy]

View attachment 5726
Does anyone know whether Flinders looks at applicants' SACE aggregate or ATAR when making offers? I was just curious to know whether Flinders will favour those with a SACE aggregate of 90.00 than those with a 89.30 while they both equate to 99.95 ATAR. Thanks.

They haven't gotten to that stage (yet). For now all 99.95s are treated the same, whether it's raw or UES-adjusted. Because the number of 99.95 selection rank applicants exceeds the number of spots (since 2020), Flinders essentially ranks everyone's UCAT scores then goes down the list.

It also means 99.90 = no bueno

 

[karanjitsharma]

Hey guys for the graduate pathway entry into flinders, is there info on what GPA is actually required to be competitive? And GAMSAT scores?

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Hey guys for the graduate pathway entry into flinders, is there info on what GPA is actually required to be competitive? And GAMSAT scores?

We don’t do much graduate entry med here. Paging Dr is the forum for that pathway really.

 

[wombatking]

I am a NSW HSC student attempting to secure UNSW/ WSU spot for medicine but failing that prefers to study in SA as I have family there. I am very open to Flinders and was wondering if any current Flinders medicine students could share their experience specifically:

1) how have you found the clinical experience in the medicine component especially in the hospitals you are assigned

2) how have you found the teaching style in the medicine component- pbl, small class etc.. well resourced, good staff? I hear some med schools are cutting costs by increasing class pbl sizes, having students simulate patient roles etc is this happening at flinders?

3) what would you say are the strengths and weaknesses of flinders med school? and from what you hear from other students/friends how does it compare to other medical schools ?

I appreciate these are general questions so if you want to share anything else on your flinders medicine experience so far that would be helpful.
thank you so much !

 

[A1]

I am a NSW HSC student attempting to secure UNSW/ WSU spot for medicine but failing that prefers to study in SA as I have family there. I am very open to Flinders and was wondering if any current Flinders medicine students could share their experience specifically:

1) how have you found the clinical experience in the medicine component especially in the hospitals you are assigned

2) how have you found the teaching style in the medicine component- pbl, small class etc.. well resourced, good staff? I hear some med schools are cutting costs by increasing class pbl sizes, having students simulate patient roles etc is this happening at flinders?

3) what would you say are the strengths and weaknesses of flinders med school? and from what you hear from other students/friends how does it compare to other medical schools ?

I appreciate these are general questions so if you want to share anything else on your flinders medicine experience so far that would be helpful.
thank you so much !

I know what I write here may not be helpful but I put it on the table anyway.

1. All Aus med degrees are AMC audited / accredited to AMC set standards. Even "big schools" like USyd/UMelb have had improvement notices put on their accreditations.

2. I'd bet none of the Flinders students has attended another Aus med school. What they might tell you will be their singular views. They can't (and neither can you) compare it to what it's like elsewhere.

3. Very very few applicants get multiple offers to choose. In your case if you get a NSW offer + Flinders you'd take the former. If you get only Flinders would you reject it because someone tells you Flinders med is cutting costs?

 

[wombatking]

I know what I write here may not be helpful but I put it on the table anyway.

1. All Aus med degrees are AMC audited / accredited to AMC set standards. Even "big schools" like USyd/UMelb have had improvement notices put on their accreditations.

2. I'd bet none of the Flinders students has attended another Aus med school. What they might tell you will be their singular views. They can't (and neither can you) compare it to what it's like elsewhere.

3. Very very few applicants get multiple offers to choose. In your case if you get a NSW offer + Flinders you'd take the former. If you get only Flinders would you reject it because someone tells you Flinders med is cutting costs?

Not sure where you are going with your post... LOL

The point of my questions was to gauge from current students their experiences - specifically their clinical experience, how they are finding their course and the general satisfaction (cost cutting is generally correlated with student dissatisfaction)

Sure, the views are representing their singular experience and may not be reflective of the collective - but any experiences from some one on the ground... who is going through this course... would be helpful for someone like me about to possibly embark on a costly move interstate to study medicine.

thank you

 

[A1]

Not sure where you are going with your post... LOL

Please see below ....

any experiences from some one on the ground... who is going through this course... would be helpful for someone like me about to possibly embark on a costly move interstate to study medicine.

My points were:
1. If you get a UNSW/WSU offer + a Flinders offer, and Flinders students tell you the course/teaching is top notch - would you embark on a costly move interstate to study at Flinders.

2. Otoh if you get only Flinders offer, and Flinders students tell you the course/teaching is crap - would you reject the opportunity to study at Flinders?

In other words, the outcome largely depends on what offers you get and/or your personal circumstances. Hardly on what you find about Flinders' course/teaching. (Especially when it's AMC accredited including quality of teaching, of clinical classes).

 

[wombatking]

You dont know my situation and what i am weighing up. I am trying to find information on flinders to better gauge my understanding of whether to look into flinders. If you dont have any helpful response then please dont speculate and philsophise. This post is for flinders students - which seems like you are not.

Btw, i was asked to post my question publicly when i approached a flinders student privately with my question (as this person thought my question would benefit other students) - just wasnt expecting to have to defend my post.

This is my first and last post on mso. I will not be posting again on mso to avoid this silly bs

Thank you moderator for your encouraging and helpful posts

blessings

 

[A1]

You dont know my situation and what i am weighing up.

I do know a little, in that you said "failing to secure UNSW/ WSU spot for medicine" you prefer to study in SA/Flinders. So
1. Flinders is only a secondary choice for you.

2. Asking about course/teaching quality shows you want to know whether Flinders is worth looking into (despite my assurance that all Aus med courses are AMC audited/accredited to be at least competent to teach medicine). The question practically all med applicants ask is whether they are good enough for a school, not whether the school is good enough for them.

3. You didn't tell us your ATAR, your UCAT, whether qualified for UES, etc. We don't know whether a Flinders offer is potentially possible. Yet you like MSO members to help you know whether Flinders is or isn't good?

This is my first and last post on mso. I will not be posting again on mso to avoid this silly bs

I notice your signame was used to make six MSO posts in 2021, then you departed.
Three years later you came back to post this question, then spit the dummy. Thank you for your brief participation.

 

[Arcadia]

I notice your signame was used to make six MSO posts in 2021, then you departed.
Three years later you came back to post this question, then spit the dummy. Thank you for your brief participation.

Haha you tell him A1

 

[B64]

Flinders vs Adelaide? Adel's failure rate (like 30% from Mana) vs maintaining credit avg at Flinders?

Also if anyone knows, Flinders vs Adel vs CDU? Don't know how to preference them on satac (yeah it's up to me but advice?). Plus when do you find out whether Flinders and CDU is unbonded or not? Is it like Griffiths, where it's based on your GPA, or like Adel (where you find out before med school starts)?

I believe that U of A is a much better course. It is vertically integrated that is you study according to systems eg Cardiac - anatomy, physiology, pathology, etc. All subjects are a non-graded pass. For whatever reason, people do drop out and it doesn't have to do with not being able to pass the course. The other advantage is the small class size < 200 in total (compare this to 500 at UQ) and way fewer foreign students <100 (compare to 200 at UQ). Clinical postings start in year 3 so you get 4 years of clinical postings.

 

[Arcadia]

Hey guys given the UCAT percentiles have gone up a lot my score of 3070 is now 90%ile and my SJT is 557

What are my chances of receiving an offer - in second round or as a top-up?

I have UES to boost my ATAR to the 99.95 required

 

[A1]

Hey guys given the UCAT percentiles have gone up a lot my score of 3070 is now 90%ile and my SJT is 557
What are my chances of receiving an offer - in second round or as a top-up?
I have UES to boost my ATAR to the 99.95 required

Unfortunately it looks more grim than before, but don't give up hope.
(Who knows maybe fewer students (with higher UCAT) qualify for UES this year and you face fewer 99.95 competitors).

 

[dltjwns729]

Hey guys given the UCAT percentiles have gone up a lot my score of 3070 is now 90%ile and my SJT is 557

What are my chances of receiving an offer - in second round or as a top-up?

I have UES to boost my ATAR to the 99.95 required

Just my guess, but I think the reason why the percentiles have gone up is not because current Year 12s are smarter than the previous ones, but rather more number of non-standards and gap yearers taking the UCAT. And given Flinders doesn't accept non-standards, I don't really think the cutoff will increase by much. Iirc although the percentiles have gone up last year, the cutoff last year was actually lower than 2 years ago. So really depends how many qualify for the UES as A1 mentioned.

_________
A1 adds: Whether our current Y12s are smarter than previous they are conclusively smarter than UK students

 

[Arcadia]

I don't really think the cutoff will increase by much. Iirc although the percentiles have gone up last year, the cutoff last year was actually lower than 2 years ago. So really depends how many qualify for the UES as A1 mentioned.

Ah so there is a cutoff for second round and top up offers still?

I was under the impression that there is a waiting list of some sort after the first round and that's how other applicants get in after some decline their first round offers.

I was aware that I am well under the first round cutoff from last year's data which is why I asked about the February round for second round offers

 

[dltjwns729]

I was under the impression that there is a waiting list of some sort after the first round and that's how other applicants get in after some decline their first round offers.

Isn't that the definition of a cutoff? A cutoff is just the score the very last person accepted into a course achieved, so it really varies year by year.

although the percentiles have gone up last year, the cutoff last year was actually lower than 2 years ago.

I brought this up because the lowest score reported on MSO two years ago was 3020, while last year it was 2920 and when I contacted Flinders, they mentioned the cutoff last year was actually lower than the previous of that year.

I was aware that I am well under the first round cutoff from last year's data which is why I asked about the February round for second round offers

I don’t think anyone knows better or worse than you whether you’ll get an offer, as we’re all looking at the same data reported here each year on MSO. If you’re just looking for a second opinion, I think the offer will be eventually given to you. Good luck!

 

[LeSpicyGinger]

I am a NSW HSC student attempting to secure UNSW/ WSU spot for medicine but failing that prefers to study in SA as I have family there. I am very open to Flinders and was wondering if any current Flinders medicine students could share their experience specifically:

1) how have you found the clinical experience in the medicine component especially in the hospitals you are assigned

2) how have you found the teaching style in the medicine component- pbl, small class etc.. well resourced, good staff? I hear some med schools are cutting costs by increasing class pbl sizes, having students simulate patient roles etc is this happening at flinders?

3) what would you say are the strengths and weaknesses of flinders med school? and from what you hear from other students/friends how does it compare to other medical schools ?

I appreciate these are general questions so if you want to share anything else on your flinders medicine experience so far that would be helpful.
thank you so much !

As a side note, I think A1 was just trying to help in saying that its difficult to put my feedback into context. Without direct comparison between schools, it truly is difficult to understand how my experiences relates to other universities. Ultimately, this makes it difficult for my feedback to be helpful in deciding to go to one school over another.

Nonetheless, I will reply to your questions.

1) Unfortunately, I can't comment too well on the clinical experience as an MD2 at Flinders doesn't go on the wards except for a week in preparation for MD3, random clinical encounters here and there and a 5 day GP placement. I think this is a bit of a weakness at Flinders as people tend to learn better while on placement (but I personally think its because most people are unable to self-study effectively). For the places I have been, I have found the clinical experiences quite useful and all the clinicans have been quite helpful in answering my questions or supporting my learning. Flinders has a broad range of options from NALHN, Flinders Medical Centre, local GPs and various rural sites, so I think its fairly diversified.

2) The teaching style is generally quite poor in my opinion. I anticipate things changing going forward with our recent AMC re-accreditation coming up, but currently we're a bit under-resourced. Lectures are fine with a typical mix of some good teachers and some not so good teachers and a few older videos. Simulations and clinical and student interaction sessions are done really well but are a bit few and far between. The main learning system, the TBL, I think is a very good teaching method, but the clinicans don't always follow the guidelines and it depends on the students in your team to get any relevant learning from the sessions. Our clinical skills is taught really well in 1st year by an experienced GP, but the quality falls off a cliff with our MD2 clinical coordinator who puts only low-medium effort and care into his teachings. This makes it difficult at times to understand what's going on. Our anatomy teachers have been excellent and I've enjoyed what we do in anatomy teachings.

3) Strengths of Flinders is definitely whole-body dissection as Flinders might be the only one that still does it, a research focus through our Advanced Studies program and a self-reflective component known as Mahara. I think Flinders is the only one that does dissection in Aus now and its a great way to see everything in context. Our advanced studies allows students to publish research papers as part of their MD degree while having extra uni support. While most students bemoan mahara, the act of self-reflection is really important and if you are able to take advantage of Mahara, its an incredibly powerful tool for self-improvement.

A strength of the clinsci program specifically is that because the 2 years are general science, it gives you a lot of opportunity to pursue other interests. I worked a lot in undergrad and I know people who have used the time to go to international competitions in things unrelated to med. So if you're interested in stuff outside of med, Flinders is really good. People STRUGGLE to not maintain a 5 gpa.

A strength of the Flinders MD program specifically is that its the only post grad medical uni in SA, which means you save time if you want to do another degree (could be literally anything) first AND then do medicine AND also want to stay in SA. I think this is the niche that Flinders fills.

Weaknesses are a hands off approach in MD1 and MD2 and inconsistent teaching. I feel like we're too clinically removed in these years and we don't get enough clinical exposure which could help anchor our learning. A lot of our learning requires a bit of self direction and assessments can get very stressful as you have to do a lot of things at once. If you've got a rural SA background, Flinders is offering the SARM at a postgraduate level and I think that program is really nice if you want to stay in a rural area for your MD degree.

Flinders generally isn't that well regarded by other medical students, but I have been consistently told that this is not a problem on the wards and in the future as consultants never look at your uni. I think certain MD schools offer 2.5-3 years of clinical placements which I think could be a better system as it helps people reach their best studying periods faster, however, I think if you spend your time wisely in preclinical, our system isn't that bad either.

I personally have enjoyed my time at Flinders, though I feel like my cohort might be a bit more negative than me when it comes to this opinion. I would still choose an Adelaide CSP if given the chance as I think doing medicine over 6 years allows you to understand it a bit better. However, I don't regret going to Flinders at all as its helped me achieve all my other goals -> I get to stay at home, save my parents 200k, graduate in the same 6 years, get to interact with an older and more mature cohort, get life stuff done because family is nearby and develop my interests in education.

The way I see things is that its not really the University that defines you, its what you do with the opportunities that it presents and I feel like I've done that well at Flinders. I'm involved in committees, applied for rural opportunities, did medrevue, ran half-marathons and so much more. If you get bogged down by the prestige and minor issues in the course then you're just self-sabotaging yourself and that's not Flinders' fault.

At the end of the day, regardless of what Flinders delivers, you're responsible for what you end up learning and retaining. Good teachers make it easier, but 80-95% of the work needs to be your own so own it and figure it out.

 

[DrDrLMG!]

As a side note, I think A1 was just trying to help in saying that its difficult to put my feedback into context. Without direct comparison between schools, it truly is difficult to understand how my experiences relates to other universities. Ultimately, this makes it difficult for my feedback to be helpful in deciding to go to one school over another.

Nonetheless, I will reply to your questions.

3) Strengths of Flinders is definitely whole-body dissection as Flinders might be the only one that still does it, a research focus through our Advanced Studies program and a self-reflective component known as Mahara. I think Flinders is the only one that does dissection in Aus now and its a great way to see everything in context.

Fantastic summary. Appreciate the honesty!

Also, FYI for those reading along, UTAS also still does whole body dissection. Such a privilege and an amazing learning opportunity.

 

[dltjwns729]

Has anyone gotten a Flinders offer yet?