'What papers should I do at UoO for graduate entry' Chat, Enquiries and Help

[AppleMac22]

No problem!
Yep I did, nothing against physiology but they changed the format for PHSL341 + PHSL342 this year completely - I personally didn't like the change, it made the course seem a little "risky". I probably over-reacted lol, but I think its either going to be marked very harshly or they'll be nice (lol sure) since its the first year they've introduced it. I really didn't mind doing either physiology or pharmacology, pharmacology stuck to its original internal assessment format and although it has its flaws like any other department does (there's no EASY majors) I felt that the best decision would be to stick with something I felt a tad bit more comfortable with as 3rd year holds the greatest weighting.

 

[kaixian0011]

Ah alright, now it seems all worrying for me
Although I still have a whole year to get through.
Will probably try to get someone's words on it though, probably on MSO.
And it seems like you enjoyed pharm alot, so maybe it's a good choice.
Is 3rd year treating you nicely?
I feel like 2nd year is definitely alot more chill than 1st year.

 

[AppleMac22]

Yeah, don't even think about 3rd year, kind of pointless they change stuff all the time anyway lol.
I also found 2nd year pretty fun, esp since theres less lectures per week compared to HSFY, you will also find that the lectures hardly go to 50slides and the information is more linked as opposed to all over the place (personally noticed this). What papers are you taking by the way?

3rd year is pretty different from 2nd year.. theres no mid semester exams for phsl or phal pretty much all lab reports, lectures are also more focused on experimental techniques and what not, but theres just 2 a week which is pretty good. Not as fun as 2nd year it seems although I have to admit im taking 3 papers, I definetly have a much lighter workload than a majority of other people because of the summer school paper (which I rec doing), so I actually have time to do each lab report properly (not to mention im doing only 2 300 levels and one 200 level). Also I have 11am starts 4/5 days so.. I guess I can't complain lol

 

[kaixian0011]

I find the lectures for 2nd year definitely easier to follow, and more related (agree with you)
However, in the exams and stuff, they don't trip you up?
Is it like health sci, just know the lectures?
Because I feel like this might be so much easier than health sci if that was the case.

And wow, I will definitely do SS, I had plans for it anyhow, and your timetables look so good!
I take

Sem1

STAT110 - I dislike it alot - I find lectures pesky (I just hate concept lectures alot) I also find they assume you have some background on STATs, I lost marks in the assignment because I don't even know what they are on about.
PHSL231
MICR221
ANAT241

Sem2
MICR
PHSL
PHSL - dont remember paper codes
MAOR110? I dont remember code either


ANAT is a bit easy right now. Although I hear its gonna be a real annoyance later on.
PHSL and MICR has the most work right now, a bit behind to be honest

 

[AppleMac22]

I find the lectures for 2nd year definitely easier to follow, and more related (agree with you)
However, in the exams and stuff, they don't trip you up?
Is it like health sci, just know the lectures?
Because I feel like this might be so much easier than health sci if that was the case.

And wow, I will definitely do SS, I had plans for it anyhow, and your timetables look so good!
I take

Sem1

STAT110 - I dislike it alot - I find lectures pesky (I just hate concept lectures alot) I also find they assume you have some background on STATs, I lost marks in the assignment because I don't even know what they are on about.
PHSL231
MICR221
ANAT241

Sem2
MICR
PHSL
PHSL - dont remember paper codes
MAOR110? I dont remember code either


ANAT is a bit easy right now. Although I hear its gonna be a real annoyance later on.
PHSL and MICR has the most work right now, a bit behind to be honest

Yeah anatomy tends to put the easier stuff first

Ok, for STAT110 I assume you have RB as your lecturer. He teaches the "boring" component of stats (general view) like bland definitions/theory etc with no real calculations. The rest of the course is more calculation based and really requires you to know basic principles that be applied to a large magnitude of questions. I personally wouldn't feel to worried if you don't enjoy the first series I didn't either, but his part really only has 3-4 MCQ's at the end of the year and they weren't too bad last year.

As for the assignments, I had a look at a friends, they have changed it a bit this year it seems making it more R-commander based. One thing to note is that anything to do with R-commander that isn't in the lectures is in no way examinable in the final. The actual "tests" every 3 weeks are based on calculations/mcq type theory questions or were anyway last year.

The final is also plussage and I guess it isn't really like the internals in that its read:answer as oppose to download data sets use r-commander to do blah etc. But have a read through the textbook they provided you (its quite interesting they didnt give us it last year..) and if the rest of the stuff looks conceptually odd to you maybe drop the paper ? up to you though I think the final is relatively straightforward and repeats quite a far amount from previous years. Personally im strongly against dropping it, this is kind of like those papers where they seem really odd from the beginning but if you stick it out and do the work you realise only a small portion of the course (insignificant) was really bad.

 

[kaixian0011]

Ah wow!
Thanks for clearing the STAT110 up!
At one point where he rambles on about R commander and how great it is for 30 mins is like at least 3 lectures.
I was looking up MSO on the potential 100 level papers I could change to
Too bad the due date was passed.
I definitely feel like the course is getting better "slowly"
I probably will have to attend tutorial, and as a plus to this is I can always get tutoring or just head over to the tutorials for any stuff I do not understand.
Thanks for restoring my faith in STATS though

Question about the other "science" papers.
Are they all the same?
In regards to study method and just answering style.
Similar to HUBS and CELS?
or the terrible BIOC?
Which would fit into which category?

 

[AppleMac22]

Ah wow!
Thanks for clearing the STAT110 up!
At one point where he rambles on about R commander and how great it is for 30 mins is like at least 3 lectures.
I was looking up MSO on the potential 100 level papers I could change to
Too bad the due date was passed.
I definitely feel like the course is getting better "slowly"
I probably will have to attend tutorial, and as a plus to this is I can always get tutoring or just head over to the tutorials for any stuff I do not understand.
Thanks for restoring my faith in STATS though

Question about the other "science" papers.
Are they all the same?
In regards to study method and just answering style.
Similar to HUBS and CELS?
or the terrible BIOC?
Which would fit into which category?

Ah that sucks, oh right can't believe its been 3 weeks already..
I dunno, I mean worst case scenario your stats doesn't go that well (I kind of doubt this though) you are already doing 8 papers anyway..

Yeah I forgot you asked that in the previous post too, so the exams aren't at all "tricky" I actually noticed they don't really ask questions to trip you up its more just if you studied everything you can feel pretty safe. All the stuff is what they teach atleast for PHSL's/PHAL/ANAT. It's not like NCEA if that's what you mean lol you can get exceptionally high marks by understanding everything at a borderline level and mass memorisation.

For PHSL231 the final exams (which you can seen online) have questions that are pretty straightforward, its basically writing down what they say and slide stuff. However some lecturers (like the optics/auditory part and senses) don't really have that many words (if at all) on their slides, however they expect comprehensive essays for the final. The audio really makes a big difference here, I don't think audio's ever had that much of an impact in HSFY. Notably, the terms test results for phsl231 last year were pretty bad, I think people took for granted it was MCQ, they ask pretty small details and I feel those who relied on lectures alone and didn't bother listening to audio's for some obscure parts may have suffered because of it. At the same time though if you cover everything in the audio, lectures and labs its not hard to get 29 or 30 (atleast for 231, 232 and 233 are different stories). Oh and just a tip for PHSL231, I don't know if they will do the same this year but last year they asked for units for particular measurements taken during the labs, and also make sure you know the equipment used for particular setups i.e. for the rat sciatic nerve lab. These came up in the MCQ's, so unlike HSFY you are going to have to study the labs properly. edit: also in the wrap up sessions they tell you some stuff like last year they told us about isoforms of a particular effector molecule and why it differed this was in no way covered in lectures and it came up as an assertive question in the terms test, so yeah pay attention to those too.

For anatomy make sure you go to the anatomy museum as the rat races use material from there, and make sure you learn the lab models well aswell.

I personally think its similar to the HUBS long essays except your essays have to be longer and have more substance, kind of hard to compare
directly though.

 

[kaixian0011]

Ah sweet as,
Seems like things aren't too bad
It's good if they don't trip you up.
I just hate how you know your materials but the health sci department is just out to get you or something, which isn't really testing what you know.

Thanks alot Apple!!!!
I gained alot of understanding for the 2nd year =]
I hope 3rd year is treating you well ^^
Tell me how you get on throughout the year!

 

[Ed1]

3rd year PHSL or MICR at Otago?

Hey, I've been told that 3rd year PHSL is particularly difficult? Is there really a big difficulty difference between PHSL and other science majors such as MICR or ANAT etc. in 3rd year? When I say difficulty, I don't necessarily mean the content but rather the ability to get an A or A+. Would it be better to take MICR or some other major in order to apply for med/dent? Would really appreciate opinions from people who have completed 3rd year, thanks!

 

[Deleted member 4350]

Hey, I've been told that 3rd year PHSL is particularly difficult? Is there really a big difficulty difference between PHSL and other science majors such as MICR or ANAT etc. in 3rd year? When I say difficulty, I don't necessarily mean the content but rather the ability to get an A or A+. Would it be better to take MICR or some other major in order to apply for med/dent? Would really appreciate opinions from people who have completed 3rd year, thanks!

I graduated with Biomedical Sciences majoring in Functional Human Bio. I did PHSL345, PHSL343 and PHSL344 as well as MICR334. I recommend you stay well away from all 300 level MICR papers and instead choose a combination of PHSL and ANAT papers. Specifically, the following papers are good options:
PHSL345
PHSL342
ANAT332
ANAT331

Good luck

 

[bobby190]

On the whole I think 300 level papers are the hardest to get A+ because of the quantity and type of internals. There are plenty of assignments/presentations which makes it hard to get near perfect marks. Also mind you the PHSL papers drastically changed format this year so better listen to some recent graduates. Lots of presentations, literature reviews and some lab reports as always.

From what I have seen this year from physiology, ANAT 300 level seems like a better bet for A+s especially when you have practical anatomy tests "rat races". All assuming you find both equally interesting.

 

[NAMPOLEON]

OTAGO: PHSL 231/MICR 221 from a 2012 student's perspective (danny)

PHSL 231: Neurophysiology

For anyone going for postgraduate entry to medicine I would like to just point out a few things about this paper. (from my experience)
I've read here and there in various MSO threads with the general consensus being that it is "easy" to get A+ in PHSL 231. For example: "I don't know many people who didn't get A+" (https://www.medstudentsonline.com.au/f13/if-you-dont-get-through-hsfy-12328/) I use that quote just to illustrate that things may have changed (not to say the poster is wrong, since it may have actually been "easy" in the past)

I am currently in my 2nd year of a BSc majoring in physiology and this year it seemed PHSL 231 was not "easy". I say this from experience of 2 terms tests and the statistics/feedback that followed. Assessment was 2 terms tests each worth 15% and the finals exam worth 70%. Terms tests both consisted of 20 standard MCQs and 10 assertion MCQs covering lecture material and lab material. Finals covered everything: 32 lectures + 6 labs

Terms test 1 had an average of 20/30 in a class of 301. That's pretty "standard" I guess, but the number of people getting A+ was quite unexpected. A total of 8 people, (that's under 3%) managed to get 90 or above.

Terms test 2 was similar with an average of 21/30 and the number of people getting 90 or above being 8 again.

Both terms tests included questions on those really small details, and I believe it was these questions which differentiated the A+ students from the rest. Learning objectives only for the terms tests is NOT sufficient if you want A+

The 30 MCQs in the finals were easier, and the 5 essay questions (each question having parts) were reasonable and fair. I finished the 30 MCQs in 20 minutes and then wrote 16 pages (excessive) for my long answer questions.. Finals kept to objectives more as well.

Ended up with A+. Overall, I would say PHSL 231 is a paper that requires more work than other 200-level papers. Some of my friends/myself taking a mix of semester 1 papers such as GENE 221/MICR 221/BIOC 221/PHSL 231 said that PHSL 231 definitely needed the most work. However the amount of work actually required isn't that bad, and if you're going for postgrad med, you better be prepared to work anyway.

Textbook?: For this paper buying the textbook is not necessary at all. I went to close reserve at the science library a few times to read over some of the readings and incorporated parts of it into my notes (wasn't very much) Just using it if you didn't understand something from a lecture would be fine...

Recording lectures?: Lectures are not recorded (unlike HSFY) and I STRONGLY suggest you get a recorder. It is not required for every lecture, just 3 lecturers in particular (which happen to be the last 3 lecturers):
-Dr Heyward: Systems neurophysiology
-Assoc. Prof. Sheard: Special senses
-Dr Campbell: Neuroendocrinology
The slides provided by these 3 lecturers are much less comprehensive than the previous ones. I remember once when Dr Sheard talked for at least 30 minutes while the same powerpoint slide was up. The powerpoint was a picture of the ear with components inside labelled. Missing his lectures would be a bad idea. If you miss them and don't get recordings/do decent self study from the textbook, you will get bent over in the finals. These 3 lecturers talk faster than the previous 2 lecturers as well, making it harder to keep up.

Last point which you would've heard many many times... DO THE PAST YEARS FINALS EXAMS AVAILABLE ON THE EXAM DATABASE. Don't be one of those losers who prints all of them out just to leave them sitting in a folder. I did every single question from the 2008/2009/2010 (the ones which were publicly available) and it was worth it.

 

[NAMPOLEON]

MICR 221: Microbes to medicine

I took this paper for 1 fact: it had some immunology. By the end of the semester, I had learned some pretty interesting things here and there including (but not limited to) medical microbiology and virology.

The assessments throughout the semester were devilishly bizarre. It seemed like they wanted to shower everyone with free marks. Of course I didn't mind. 2 terms tests worth 15% each with 40MCQs had questions which required no understanding of the content. Just plain recitation of simple facts. Seriously. This led me to assume that the finals was going to try and turn everyone upside down.

Terms test 1: Class average of 78%
Terms test 2: Class average of 84%

Both terms test had ~20% (or more) getting 90 or above. (I know its strange)

The finals exam certainly "dropped bombs" in terms of difficulty. It made sense though, since up to finals, everything was so easy. In the 40 MCQs, quite a few required thinking and weren't so straightforward. Some were "tricky" and seemed to me like they were deliberately trying to trip people up. The essay questions certainly lived up to expectations. They required quite in-depth answers and a solid understanding of content was required. 2 of my friends taking MICR 221 who had 97.5% averages prior to the finals both ended up with A grades (was a bit surprising). I am quite curious as to how many people actually ended up with A+, considering so many had nice and shiny averages going into finals.

Forgot to mention some little bonuses: There are answers to ALL labs and pre-labs which are uploaded after the lab rotation is finished. Answers to terms tests are given in labs following the test.

Ended up with A+ overall. Terms of workload, this paper is definitely less than, say PHSL 231. My friend who said he put the same amount of work into both PHSL 231 and MICR 221 ended up with a much better grade in the latter. Provided you don't get super-cocky after the terms tests and underestimate the finals, you should be capable of doing well.

Textbook?: Just no. Unless you really really want to. Only if you want to sacrifice some of your spare time to read what they said in lecture. They explain things very well in lectures and therefore I found the textbook for MICR 221 not of any use. If there's hardly no reason to look at it in close reserve, there's no point in buying it also.

Recording lectures?: Lectures are not recorded (unlike HSFY) and I STRONGLY suggest you get a recorder. Particularly for these 2 lecturers:
-Dr Bateup: Microbial growth and control
-Assoc. Prof. Mclellan: Immunology
A lot of things are said very quickly, things which are not in slides, and are very important. For the other lecturers you should be able to keep up with what they say with not too much trouble. Dr. Ireton is even kind enough to read off his slides (almost 99%)

Just like any other paper: Do those past year finals questions. Just do them. Yes, just do them. I did every question I could get my hands on. One essay question in the finals was almost copied and pasted (which was instant win)

NOTE: One of my friends who was a class rep for MICR 221 had feedback from students and actually talked to Dr Bateup (course convenor) about the incredible easiness of the assessments, so this could potentially be changed next year. (well anything I write is subject to change in the future)

 

[bobby190]

Yup things have changed. Internals for 231 used to be SAQ and turns out MCQ internals are harder. PHSL300 level internals have had a massive overhaul from previous year aswell on a side note.

Final exams would be quite similar in terms of SAQs (200 level) and Essays (300 level).

Yes Berne and Levy is a shit textbook (no matter what edition). download vander 11th edition, its way better.

 

[puffkins]

​Totally agree what danny posted. I was actually a class rep for PHSL 231 and we were told that around 50 people actually failed the first terms test which the Physiology department was quite concerned about. Personally I think the microbiology department offers better learning resources eg. some model answers, MCQ's that were on the terms test and Alex Mclellan was even kind enough to give a couple of tutorials before the exam. In the class rep meeting for PHSL 231 we asked how we could better prepare for the next terms test and were told we needed more MCQ practice but that they would not provide this for us. Ultimately its up to each individual to chose what they major in but from the experience I have had (and many of my friends) anyone going for postgraduate entry to medicine should not take PHSL 231 thinking its an easy A+ paper because for many this semester it was not. However I can not speak for the second semester physiology papers as I have not taken them yet but it will be interesting to hear peoples feedback in future.

 

[AppleMac22]

I actually find this view of PHSL231 being "harder" quite interesting. I did PHSL231 last year (A+) and if I recall correctly only about 2-3 people got A+ in the terms test last year too. Without sounding arrogant, I don't actually understand why people are finding it hard/think its harder than previous years. I'll just state why I actually think people should do it.

Firstly, I don't think im some super genius, but I got A+ in both TT's and all I did was audios+lecture slides and memorised all the small points, and the MCQ's were just based on those points (so I guess it might have thrown people who don't really memorize a little off, but seriously you should never rely on the learning objectives, its better to make sure you understand every slide anyway). I can understand that for the assertion questions mis-reading can lead to easy mistakes, however i've also looked at previous year terms tests and while the questions were "easier" in that they were more straightforward (SAQ), it still seemed like you still needed to memorise all the small details (particularly for tt2) so I find it hard to believe that someone would have gotten 100% if it was SAQ vs MCQ (ignoring the innate difficulty some people have with MCQ's in general). With regards to the finals I just wrote 1-1/2 pages for each answer (I dont think that was 16 pages either) and I only lost 5/100 marks in the exam, and all I did for revision was literally read my notes (which were a combination of the audios+lectures) which really anyone should be able to do.

However that said, my classmates also complained about the paper and I seriously think its because people aren't listening to the audios/listening to the audios properly, as opposed to the paper becoming harder all of a sudden. So I disagree with PHSL231 not being an "easy" (however I think "good" is a better term because I don't think anything bar some 100levels are easy) paper, however maybe they made it even worse this year I can't really argue with that since I didn't do it this year, but for anyone who does the paper in the future I advise that you a) record the audios and b) don't just listen to them make a transcript (which you should be doing for every paper anyway). Also if you find that PHSL231 has a high workload maybe taking 232 and 233 isn't a good idea because they go into much more depth.

Lastly, trust me this idea of one department being better than the other isn't real, I also had a similar mindset last year. For example I thought the pharmacology department was a bit meh, but now in 3rd year I think their amazing. ALL the departments are disorganized/lazy in their own way MICR seems great in 2nd year (I kind of wish I took it) but now my friends are telling me the 3rd year MICR papers are horrible.. I also took HUNT this year and I didn't last year because people told me the department was bad, and I actually didn't find the paper difficult at all.

TLDR - no paper is easy and no department is good, if you listen to the audios + take good notes you will get A/A+ regardless of the paper.

 

[bobby190]

TLDR - no paper is easy and no department is good, if you listen to the audios + take good notes you will get A/A+ regardless of the paper.

Eer Iv listened to many audios and taken good notes and not gotten A/A+ in a few papers.
Its much more common than you think. Even pharmacology only ever got A- in them, not sure why as I was expecting to do a bit better.

But anyway do you make notes on printed lecture slides or notebook?

If you do audios + take good notes + go thru your notes memorising atleast twice (not halfassing it) then at 100 and 200 level its fair to expect atleast 80. 300 level will need premade essays from old exam questions for PHSL especially.

 

[Deleted member 4350]

300 level is a whole nother beast. It requires more than just audios, slides and model answers. If you're looking for the A/A+ range, you have to be reading research articles and incorporating them into model answers made from the slides/audios. The most difficult part of all is trying to juggle the endless lab reports, presentations and posters with getting a handle on the lecture material. At 200 level, the assessments (usually terms tests) conveniently require learning material that will be applicable to your final exam, making it easier to revise come exam time. This is not the case at 300 level. Me and a great deal of others had to cram the entire lecture course into a couple of short weeks because (in second semester) we had 17 assignments. I remember during the mid semester break in semester 2, I spent every waking minute of every day (first Friday night off to last Sunday night right before second half of semester started) working on 4 assignments and just barely managed to finish them. This was mainly due to the nature of my paper combo (HUNT 200 levels and PHSL 300 levels). We actually ended up having to be selective about which lectures to memorise, and which to ignore almost entirely because of the harsh time constraints. Looking back, I would say that maybe my time management and work-life balance skills were not very well refined, but having said that I think 300 level is a struggle for everyone (including people who just want to pass) and I can fully appreciate why its given a 1.5 weighting.

 

[AppleMac22]

Eer Iv listened to many audios and taken good notes and not gotten A/A+ in a few papers.
Its much more common than you think. Even pharmacology only ever got A- in them, not sure why as I was expecting to do a bit better.

But anyway do you make notes on printed lecture slides or notebook?

If you do audios + take good notes + go thru your notes memorising atleast twice (not halfassing it) then at 100 and 200 level its fair to expect atleast 80. 300 level will need premade essays from old exam questions for PHSL especially.

Yeah I completely understand that too, I mean im really just saying what worked for me but again it would be ignorant to think there's a specific formula that EVERYONE can simply follow and get A+/A's etc but I just found it odd that some of my friends didn't get A+ and I don't at all consider them to be less competent then me in anyway, and I don't think im doing anything special either! That's uni exams for you though I guess.
In 2nd year I used to make my own powerpoints (typing) basically a modified version of the actual lecture slides and then just printed them out, however in 3rd year I'm writing on the lecture slides but I always just type a transcript of the audio because I don't trust my memory based on listening alone;

@koochkooch yep definetly agree I had to do the same for my pharmacology papers too, there are simply too many lab reports during the semester. Not to mention if you want an A+ you can't generically write the lab report you need to achieve a professional tone which isn't always easy to produce on the first draft (and for pharmacology we only got 1 week to type up lab reports!!). I also had to take a few risks and do some lectures more lightly than others (here's where you need to use your own judgement to predict what you think is more important which is pretty difficult considering the hints lecturers aren't always very accurate i.e. the majority of things a particular lecturer told us to keep in mind for the exam didn't turn up lol).

I haven't done any PHSL 300level papers but for pharmacology you only have to read literature for 1 of the questions (in 305), the rest don't require you to make citations or anything. I actually think pharmacology 300 level might be more bearable in this regard. For anyone interested in pharmacology the finals are;
(a) 301 - MCQs and long essays
(b) 305 - long essays
(c) 306 - long essays (didn't do this though)

The questions for 305 however are always very broad, and he expects everything he says (his lecture slides are really bad, he says everything though so audios are essential here) so for an A+ you should be expecting to write 4-5 pages with diagrams (these are also essential), for 301 less diagram based and the questions again are quite "open" in that they require lengthy answers (however 3/4 pages). I think in this aspect however physiology is also similar.

 

[bobby190]

[offtopic]

because (in second semester) we had 17 assignments

Bitch please had 11 in 30 days! + practicals FML. More stressful than actual exam time. But in the defence of dent department they werent always as big the 300 level internals. [/offtopic]

I had a flick thru some 300 level PHAL lectures and it seemed pretty cool. Much much more preferable to some ANAT and PHSL lectures. Seems more of knowledge base as opposed to memorise and regurgitate outdated & inapplicable-in-real-life research bs...EUGH. Good to have a PHAL major around, bit of a rare species around here.

Interesting and unique method of making notes. I dont really understand what people do with the transcript of written lectures but I guess its good if you read it after the lecture itself so your thorough on what the lecturer emphasised.