'What papers should I do at UoO for graduate entry' Chat, Enquiries and Help

[sg115]

Also mind you the PHSL papers drastically changed format this year so better listen to some recent graduates. Lots of presentations, literature reviews and some lab reports as always.

Does anyone here know of any recent graduates? I've also heard that PHSL has changed quite a bit .. would it be better to do another major as opposed to a PHSL one?

 

[sg115]

Sweet thanks, are you 3rd year phsl?

im taking next year both because i want a degree and a chance for med
Cell+molecular Neurophysiology PHSL341
Integrative Neruophysiology PHSL342
Physiol aspects of health Disease PHSL345

Cell + Epithelial Physiology PHSL343
Neuropharmacology PHAL303
Neurobiology ANAT335

Hey Ramza! I see you are now doing med at Otago, I'm a 2nd year phsl major and would also like to get into med after I complete this degree. What papers did you end up taking in 2nd and 3rd year? And how did you find them?

 

[wrglmczslzf]

Thank you guys for the information. Is there anyone going to do phsl 300 level together next year even if they change the system this year???

 

[wrglmczslzf]

For me I find the PHSL231 textbook most useful then the micro221 one(for the lab prereading LOL). I seldom opened the anat241 one, not very necessary.

 

[NAMPOLEON]

Thank you guys for the information. Is there anyone going to do phsl 300 level together next year even if they change the system this year???

Was wondering what you meant by "changing the system this year"?

 

[wrglmczslzf]

Was wondering what you meant by "changing the system this year"?

I meaned the course of 300 level physiology paper. I heard they change it since this year if i am correct.

 

[Doodle]

[MENTION=10330]apdz[/MENTION]
[MENTION=4350]koochkooch[/MENTION]

Did you take any other 300 level MICR papers? Or know anyone else who did? I'm thinking of doing mainly MICR papers in my third year and would like any information on any of the 300 level papers. Thanks!

 

[NAMPOLEON]

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[SomethingWitty]

FWIW. In 2010 PHSL 231 was quite easy. When they gave the Eccles prize the professors said that in 2010, 12 people got A+ in all three 200 PHSL papers this was above average and they planned on changing it.
The point is not whether its hard to get an A+, it is that this paper is brilliant and if you are so obsessed with grades that you would skip this amazing paper you don't deserve to be in medicine.

 

[frootloop]

[offtopic]

The point is not whether its hard to get an A+, it is that this paper is brilliant and if you are so obsessed with grades that you would skip this amazing paper you don't deserve to be in medicine.

I'm obviously not one to comment on which papers one should/shouldn't do in an undergrad degree before med, but I feel that judging people's 'worthiness' of a place in medicine based on their choice of undergrad papers is possibly a little bit harsh... [/offtopic]

 

[SomethingWitty]

Meh. I feel strongly that if you can sacrifice a quality paper (that explains fundamental concepts in medical science) because it's too hard and will ruin my GPA. Then maybe they should not be pursuing a medical career, where understanding difficult biomedical concepts will be a constant part of a good Doctor's day.

 

[Jordan]

People feel strongly about other things and it's not fair of you to pass judgement on them simply because they have different opinions and want to go about studying med in a different way. Wanting to do easier subjects to better your chances at entry in no way affects a person's worthiness to study medicine.

 

[Cathay]

Meh. I feel strongly that if you can sacrifice a quality paper (that explains fundamental concepts in medical science) because it's too hard and will ruin my GPA. Then maybe they should not be pursuing a medical career, where understanding difficult biomedical concepts will be a constant part of a good Doctor's day.

Erm... Considering how the necessary biomedical concepts are taught at medical school, I'm not seeing the problem with wanting to maximise one's chances by taking a paper one would do well in. I just don't see why people should be deemed 'not worthy' by taking an easier way. In my view, sacrificing one's place at the medical school to do 'quality' biomedical papers seems a little silly, but that's just me.

[offtopic]I'm just a second year so I have no idea what "a good doctor's day" involves, but just from what I've heard so far, wouldn't "understanding difficult biomedical concepts" belong more in "a med student's day"? I mean, wouldn't "a good doctor's day" be more about applying those concepts practically and taking good care of the patients? One of my tutors who is a GP said something to the effect of "when you're practicing, you just know exactly what to do and what would happen, but you tend to lose the 'how it all works' inbetween".[/offtopic]

 

[SomethingWitty]

My point regarding "deserve to be in medicine" addressed an attitude to learning that seems far to prevalent in the pre-med world, rather than the actual collection of knowledge that PHSL 231 has to offer. Everyone accepts that the relevant concepts from PHSL 231 will be taught in medicine again. But if you choose to not do a paper because the biomedical concepts within that paper are too hard (they are really not, and I am comparing this to what Auckland MB ChB contains) then you are showing an attitude that is inconsistent with any good doctor or medical student.

If we are going by what our professors are telling us then learning new research will be a constant part of your day. If a GP or a consultant told me that they don't keep up with new biomedical concepts in their field, I would run so very far from their very incompetent hands.

 

[greenglacier]

If we are going by what our professors are telling us then learning new research will be a constant part of your day. If a GP or a consultant told me that they don't keep up with new biomedical concepts in their field, I would run so very far from their very incompetent hands.

If you heard this from biomedical science lecturers I'd be very skeptical. Scientists (even those doing research very relevant to medicine) don't tend to have a particularly good idea about what is and isn't important for doctors to know IMO.

On another matter, do you think that people shy away from PHSL231 because the concepts are hard or because it's hard to get a good mark? The two are actually quite distinct (harsh marking can make a paper with only basic concepts seem "hard").

 

[Cathay]

My point regarding "deserve to be in medicine" addressed an attitude to learning that seems far to prevalent in the pre-med world, rather than the actual collection of knowledge that PHSL 231 has to offer. Everyone accepts that the relevant concepts from PHSL 231 will be taught in medicine again. But if you choose to not do a paper because the biomedical concepts within that paper are too hard (they are really not, and I am comparing this to what Auckland MB ChB contains) then you are showing an attitude that is inconsistent with any good doctor or medical student.

I think gg's found the key issue here. I think the reason we don't agree is that you're referring to "oh I won't take that paper because it's too hard", and I'm referring to "oh I'll take the other paper with the more lenient marking". The former would suggest that they are perhaps a bit lazy and don't enjoy the challenge of learning advanced content, while the latter is, as I see it, simply a logical solution to achieve a goal, with no implications on the person's character.

Yes, I admit that in HSFY I stuck with "the hard way" and didn't take the easy marks that is an 8th paper and actively encouraged others with similarly high first semester marks not to waste the money, but I also recognized that it's a valid strategy, and didn't look down upon people who took advantage of these provisions in the rules.

If the provisions are there in the rules, then obviously people making the admission rules would have decided what they deem to be "worthy" (for instance Otago only looks at 200- and 300-level papers in the 3rd year of a degree), and even if I did frown upon people who took papers that give high marks more liberally (which I don't), I personally don't see myself as being in a position to pass judgement on them.

If we are going by what our professors are telling us then learning new research will be a constant part of your day. If a GP or a consultant told me that they don't keep up with new biomedical concepts in their field, I would run so very far from their very incompetent hands.

That is not what I meant at all.

In my interpretation, "keeping up to date" (what you've just described) is not the same as "understanding difficult biomedical concepts" (what you were saying before) - my interpretation of "understanding difficult biomedical concepts" is something along the lines of knowing the details of the exact mechanisms of conditions, and the exact mechanisms of drugs and their adverse reactions. My tutor was specifically referring to "you just know that when you give antibiotics the patient will probably have diarrhoea (and you tell them that and reassure them it's normal), but you start to forget exactly why and how it happens".

I was referring to the fact that my tutor's comment would suggest that knowing what to give and what to look out for may be a more important part of a doctor's day than knowing exactly how the drugs being prescribed would work.

My current knowledge of EBP would suggest that "diving into journal articles and understanding exactly what's going on" isn't the only way to keep up to date - there are people who work very hard to produce up-to-date guidelines for specific conditions, and reading those guidelines is a concise way to get up to date. From what I've seen some of these guidelines are fairly to-the-point - "do this, check this, look out for this", and if we were in a hurry we'd be able to just take that onboard and use it without needing to have a full knowledge of exactly what's going on and exactly why we look for these things. Obviously the full knowledge and understanding would be ideal, but life's not always perfect.

 

[NAMPOLEON]

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[gtr8]

Although I can't release the exact numbers I can confirm that the proportion of people getting in the A range in PHSL 231 (A+,A,A-) has stayed relatively similar in 2012 as compared to 2011. However there was a massive (12%) drop from 2010 to 2011. In 300 level this years cohort seems to be doing considerably better than previous years.

 

[Ramza]

Hey there, Ok.

2nd year - PHSL231(Neuro) PHSL232(cardioresp), PHSL233(G.I. Renal), PHAL211 (Pharmacol), PSYC111, ANAT242 (Neuroanat), ANAT241 (Skeletal)
3rd year - PHSL 345 (Pathophysiology) PHSL343 (G.I Renal) PHSL344 (Cardioresp), PHAL212 (Toxicology), ANAT332 (Cell Biol), COMP202, MAOR207

3rd year was by far the hardest year I have come across - 2nd year simply builds on first year.

3rd year teaches you critical thiking in terms of scientific method of how and why a 'fact exists'. i.e you easily learn that calcium goes in via Ltype calcium channels to interact with RYR2 to cause CICR in 200 level.

In 300 you look at methodology of how that fact is right and what experimental results might support/not support the theory. You may not have got the right results so you argue your point using current literature - I miss this component of my degree as we simply get spoon fed in medicine.

Despite this - 300 level was great if you love investigating and problem solving, COMP202 + MAOR207 = easy A+ and PHAL212 - good paper for an easy A- (with a lot of work) but its very very relevant to physiology and medicine.

 

[tumeke]

What other 200 and 300 level papers are easy to get A+ in? and does non- science related papers count towards final GPA calculation?