General Medicine Entry Discussion and Advice Requests

[Crow]

You aren’t going to get a different answer by repeatedly asking the same question, sorry!

 

[chinaski]

Yeah, but come on dude. Seriously if a student went to Harvard University graduated with honours and another student went to JCU with an okayish mark they wouldn't care?

Listen, kid. Believe me or don't believe me - no skin off my nose. But you're coming from a position of total inexperience and ignorance, and you're arguing with someone who's the polar opposite.

 

[E_N]

Well my dad's a doctor working in Australia, and even he agreed that reputation does matter (but not that significantly). I'm not a person with no background information at all. I wasn't criticising JCU at all. Just using it as comparison case.

 

[dotwingz]

[Redacted]

 

[chinaski]

Well my dad's a doctor working in Australia, and even he agreed that reputation does matter (but not that significantly).

In regards to what?

 

[LeSpicyGinger]

My father is also a doctor working in Australia. He has personally recommended to me that a shorter degree at somewhere like UNE of low rep > then a longer one at a more prestigious university when i was coordinating preferences for myself

Frankly, my father says the same (except he's a GP)

 

[E_N]

In regards to what?

As in, if you came from a university with significantly higher reputation (e.g. Oxford Cambridge Harvard etc.) vs university with average reputation.

 

[chinaski]

As in, if you came from a university with significantly higher reputation (e.g. Oxford Cambridge Harvard etc.) vs university with average reputation.

In what context? How exactly would it make a difference?

 

[chinaski]

Employment.

OK - I'm going to do you a favour and explain a few basics to you, and then it's on you to go out and verify those facts.

Employment straight after med school in Australia is guaranteed to all CSP holders. Ergo, your med school doesn't matter.
Employment beyond that point is contingent on your performance as a doctor, professional reputation, and references. The further out of medical school you get, the less it matters, because it's a distant historical blip on your radar, which is superseded and outweighed by subsequent professional growth and experience in the workforce.
Entering a college training program is not selected according to med school marks or references.
Interviewing for a job and CV consideration as a specialist does not consider your med school. To do so would be akin to your Year 12 teachers taking into account how well you did in third grade mathematics.

If your father has suggested that your Australian med school is a critical factor (or even considered at all) with regards to employment in Australia, he is giving you poor, potentially misinformed advice.

What does matter:
Australian residency or citizenship status
Post graduate training
Workplace experience as a doctor
Workplace ability as a doctor
Workplace reputation as a doctor
Involvement in research
Higher degrees (ie PhDs)

 

[E_N]

OK - I'm going to do you a favour and explain a few basics to you, and then it's on you to go out and verify those facts.

Employment straight after med school in Australia is guaranteed to all CSP holders. Ergo, your med school doesn't matter.
Employment beyond that point is contingent on your performance as a doctor, professional reputation, and references. The further out of medical school you get, the less it matters, because it's a distant historical blip on your radar, which is superseded and outweighed by subsequent professional growth and experience in the workforce.
Entering a college training program is not selected according to med school marks or references.
Interviewing for a job and CV consideration as a specialist does not consider your med school. To do so would be akin to your Year 12 teachers taking into account how well you did in third grade mathematics.

If your father has suggested that your Australian med school is a critical factor (or even considered at all) with regards to employment in Australia, he is giving you poor, potentially misinformed advice.

What does matter:
Australian residency or citizenship status
Post graduate training
Workplace experience as a doctor
Workplace ability as a doctor
Workplace reputation as a doctor
Involvement in research
Higher degrees (ie PhDs)

Thanks for the information dude. I certainly do get what you are saying. My father was not giving me misinformed advice, he did say to me that in the long run, it does not matter at all and the most important thing is that you start earning and making a living, because med school is ridiculously expensive and it takes many years to pay off. He was simply telling me that it is more of a 'wow' factor going to those universities considering they are so notoriously difficult to get into. I may have taken that as thinking that university reputation was a big factor for employment as a doctor, but obviously not, and you guys and my dad to did clarify that for me. So thanks!

 

[chinaski]

Thanks for the information dude. I certainly do get what you are saying. My father was not giving me misinformed advice, he did say to me that in the long run, it does not matter at all and the most important thing is that you start earning and making a living, because med school is ridiculously expensive and it takes many years to pay off. He was simply telling me that it is more of a 'wow' factor going to those universities considering they are so notoriously difficult to get into. I may have taken that as thinking that university reputation was a big factor for employment as a doctor, but obviously not, and you guys and my dad to did clarify that for me. So thanks!

That's fine - it does sound as though you over-estimated his comments. Rest assured, all Australian medical schools produce the same raw product (ie interns) - they are all accredited by the same body, and are considered on a par with each other. What really matters WRT employment and progression of your career is everything you do AFTER medical school.

p.s I'm not a dude.

 

[dotwingz]

because med school is ridiculously expensive and it takes many years to pay off

I just wanna address that med school is not considerably expensive

These are the fees that you will pay when you (hopefully ) enter med school:

Band	Discipline	Annual cost
1	Teaching, clinical psychology, English, maths, nursing, languages, agriculture	$3,700
2	Allied health, other health, architecture, IT, creative arts, engineering, environmental studies, science	$7,700
3	Medical, dental, veterinary science	$11,300
4	Law & economics, management & commerce, society & culture, humanities, communications, behavioural science	$14,500

As you can see a 6 year undergrad course of med will be about the same as a 4 year law course, and considering you are guarenteed a 60-80k job on graduation, means its not that bad

 

[LeSpicyGinger]

I just wanna address that med school is not considerably expensive

These are the fees that you will pay when you (hopefully ) enter med school:

Band	Discipline	Annual cost
1	Teaching, clinical psychology, English, maths, nursing, languages, agriculture	$3,700
2	Allied health, other health, architecture, IT, creative arts, engineering, environmental studies, science	$7,700
3	Medical, dental, veterinary science	$11,300
4	Law & economics, management & commerce, society & culture, humanities, communications, behavioural science	$14,500

As you can see a 6 year undergrad course of med will be about the same as a 4 year law course, and considering you

Well, unless you take Bond.

 

[E_N]

That's fine - it does sound as though you over-estimated his comments. Rest assured, all Australian medical schools produce the same raw product (ie interns) - they are all accredited by the same body, and are considered on a par with each other. What really matters WRT employment and progression of your career is everything you do AFTER medical school.

p.s I'm not a dude.

Haha sorry ma'am.

Unsolicited advice, but I would suggest re-thinking that bit in bold. You shouldn't be in a hurry to commit your life and soul to medicine - it's demanding and unforgiving once you're in the thick of it, so there's a lot to be said about spending some time exploring other avenues and interests while you have the relative time and freedom to do so. It's not a race, and you won't be disadvantaged by coming to medicine a few years later than the bare minimum. If anything, taking the scenic route is often the healthiest and wisest way for many people.

Yeah I'll definitely consider that. I do have a few backup options up my sleeve (possible pathway in engineering, I've been doing music for eight years and have a diploma in that too) so I'll use those if I need to!

I just wanna address that med school is not considerably expensive

These are the fees that you will pay when you (hopefully ) enter med school:

Band	Discipline	Annual cost
1	Teaching, clinical psychology, English, maths, nursing, languages, agriculture	$3,700
2	Allied health, other health, architecture, IT, creative arts, engineering, environmental studies, science	$7,700
3	Medical, dental, veterinary science	$11,300
4	Law & economics, management & commerce, society & culture, humanities, communications, behavioural science	$14,500

As you can see a 6 year undergrad course of med will be about the same as a 4 year law course, and considering you are guarenteed a 60-80k job on graduation, means its not that bad

Mmm that's interesting, I didn't actually realise law and economics was so much. Thanks for the info. Regardless, I do think it's a pretty decent amount of money to pay though. But nice to see that it isn't as bad as I thought.

 

[dotwingz]

Mmm that's interesting, I didn't actually realise law and economics was so much. Thanks for the info. Regardless, I do think it's a pretty decent amount of money to pay though. But nice to see that it isn't as bad as I thought.

Yeah I agree, its not peanuts to be wasted, but its also something not crippling. Keep in mind theres also a small minority of medicine places (including Bond, Macquarie, and some places at UniMelb) where the cost of the degree can be upwards of $400k

 

[garmonbozia]

Mmm that's interesting, I didn't actually realise law and economics was so much. Thanks for the info. Regardless, I do think it's a pretty decent amount of money to pay though. But nice to see that it isn't as bad as I thought.

The fee structure dotwingz has quoted is the restructuring proposed recently by the government, not what is currently in place. While medicine and dentistry costs would stay the same, hopefully the fee restructure doesn't actually come to pass, because it's jacking up the prices of several courses and making them inaccessible to everyone but the wealthy, while also lowering government funding for university courses overall.

 

[chinaski]

Once you're repaying your debt, you barely notice it.

 

[dotwingz]

The fee structure dotwingz has quoted is the restructuring proposed recently by the government, not what is currently in place. While medicine and dentistry costs would stay the same, hopefully the fee restructure doesn't actually come to pass, because it's jacking up the prices of several courses and making them inaccessible to everyone but the wealthy, while also lowering government funding for university courses overall.

At least theyre not getting rid of hecs or csps... oh wait

 

[Tomato]

The fee structure dotwingz has quoted is the restructuring proposed recently by the government, not what is currently in place. While medicine and dentistry costs would stay the same, hopefully the fee restructure doesn't actually come to pass, because it's jacking up the prices of several courses and making them inaccessible to everyone but the wealthy, while also lowering government funding for university courses overall.

The potential increase of the fee for those courses may be because the employment market cannot accommodate too many graduates with those degrees.

 

[Crow]

The potential increase of the fee for those courses may be because the employment market cannot accommodate too many graduates with those degrees.

That’s the justification the government is using, but you can see an obvious ulterior motive.