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International Students: General Medicine Entry

Hi, Im a newbie here. Thanks for welcoming me. I've just completed my MD from an overseas uni. I'm an Australian citizen and attempting to find useful information for those that have experienced or have an understanding. Assuming I pass the AMC exams, how difficult is it currently to obtain an internship in Australia, particularly in QLD? Happy to move about though.
 

A1

Rookie Doc
Moderator
Hi, Im a newbie here. Thanks for welcoming me. I've just completed my MD from an overseas uni. I'm an Australian citizen and attempting to find useful information for those that have experienced or have an understanding. Assuming I pass the AMC exams, how difficult is it currently to obtain an internship in Australia, particularly in QLD? Happy to move about though.
There was a government National Audit report (the website is now inactive) showing out of 3500ish intern positions a year only 1 or 2 went to "AMC graduates", which I think denotes overseas graduates who have passed the AMC exams. Unfortunately that's the terrible odds you're facing.

Previously I thought you might have a chance with NSW if you select the Rural pathway and pick the most remote hospital network as your first preference. But on a recent look I realise NSW gives the lowest Priority Category 6 to AMC-accredited overseas campus, which could mean AMC graduates don't even get a Priority to be considered (but still worth a try)
> Medical Intern Recruitment

I don't think there is much hope in Vic or SA. Your best chance is Qld where outside of Priority 1 it's selected on merit (although still tough for you to win on merit over graduates who did clinical placements there). Or WA where some year they don't get enough applicants - I recently met an intern who graduated from Oceanic OUM.
 
There was a government National Audit report (the website is now inactive) showing out of 3500ish intern positions a year only 1 or 2 went to "AMC graduates", which I think denotes overseas graduates who have passed the AMC exams. Unfortunately that's the terrible odds you're facing.

Previously I thought you might have a chance with NSW if you select the Rural pathway and pick the most remote hospital network as your first preference. But on a recent look I realise NSW gives the lowest Priority Category 6 to AMC-accredited overseas campus, which could mean AMC graduates don't even get a Priority to be considered (but still worth a try)
> Medical Intern Recruitment

I don't think there is much hope in Vic or SA. Your best chance is Qld where outside of Priority 1 it's selected on merit (although still tough for you to win on merit over graduates who did clinical placements there). Or WA where some year they don't get enough applicants - I recently met an intern who graduated from Oceanic OUM.
A1 Thank you for your honest response. I did all my rotations here actually. It's not OUM but similar. These figures dont give me much hope. I was told when I started that all the ones that went through OUM or similar all got internships. This was 3 years ago mind you. Based on this I assessed my risks and decided to make the leap. I wished my 10 year hadnt expired when I sat GAMSAT as I felt I had a competitive chance with my score. Little did I know about the expiry at the time.

Maybe I should just quit now and go back to my old boring office job, where at least there is security and a clear path. Thanks anyway.
 

DrDrLMG!

Resident Medical Officer
Administrator
A1 Thank you for your honest response. I did all my rotations here actually. It's not OUM but similar. These figures dont give me much hope. I was told when I started that all the ones that went through OUM or similar all got internships. This was 3 years ago mind you. Based on this I assessed my risks and decided to make the leap. I wished my 10 year hadnt expired when I sat GAMSAT as I felt I had a competitive chance with my score. Little did I know about the expiry at the time.

Maybe I should just quit now and go back to my old boring office job, where at least there is security and a clear path. Thanks anyway.
Are you in a position to complete your internship and initial training in the country you’ve completed your degree?
 
Are you in a position to complete your internship and initial training in the country you’ve completed your degree?
Unfortunately no. Its setup much like OUM. I've only got 1 more year left of my degree but been having some serious doubts if to finish now. I'd felt reasonably comfortable up until recently.
 

A1

Rookie Doc
Moderator
I was told when I started that all the ones that went through OUM or similar all got internships. This was 3 years ago mind you.
I like to see data supporting such claim^. The last several years we heard all around there weren't enough internships for int'l graduates of Aus med schools, hard to believe there were many for graduates of non-Aus schools.

I managed to dig up this 2017 National Audit report attached. Shown on page 2 :
"After completion of the final audit, 3312 applicants had accepted a state/territory intern position, including
- 3066 domestic graduates from Aus universities
- 235 international graduates from Aus universities (out of 451 applicants)
- 8 international graduates from AMC-accredited offshore campuses (Ochsner or Monash Malaysia, out of 118)
- 2 New Zealand medical school graduates (out of 5)
- 1 AMC graduate (out of 48)
"
 

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  • Report on the National Audit of Applications and Acceptances for Medical Internship for 2017 C...pdf
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I like to see data supporting such claim^. The last several years we heard all around there weren't enough internships for int'l graduates of Aus med schools, hard to believe there were many for graduates of non-Aus schools.

I managed to dig up this 2017 National Audit report attached. Shown on page 2 :
"After completion of the final audit, 3312 applicants had accepted a state/territory intern position, including
- 3066 domestic graduates from Aus universities
- 235 international graduates from Aus universities (out of 451 applicants)
- 8 international graduates from AMC-accredited offshore campuses (Ochsner or Monash Malaysia, out of 118)
- 2 New Zealand medical school graduates (out of 5)
- 1 AMC graduate (out of 48)
"
Thanks for that info A1. I can't really comment on that...seems pretty poor odds. All I can say is this is completely anecdotal. I met with one just last week actually. He works at the Sunshine Coast hospital. He said there others did theirs in Tasmania, Townsville and Hervey Bay. I asked him too what he thought the chances were like, and he said, "Mate you wont have issues getting an internship. It's the training pathways where we all get stuck." Anyway, I know he isnt on the selection team but I guess I have to work out if I go on his perspective or don't push ahead.
 

chinaski

Regular Member
You wouldn't have any problems getting an internship as an Australian grad. This is not the case for overseas graduates. I wouldn't be relying on anecdotal evidence from one person here - due diligence is required to get to the facts of the matter.
 

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You wouldn't have any problems getting an internship as an Australian grad. This is not the case for overseas graduates. I wouldn't be relying on anecdotal evidence from one person here - due diligence is required to get to the facts of the matter.
He was specifically speaking about the overseas graduates. He gave me their contact details to speak to them so I'll do just that. Speak to them about the ins and outs of the process. Thanks Chin. It's a tough one. I read that report by the way, A1. There were still about 24 odd intern positions that could have been taken so not sure why only 1 AMC took that. Location perhaps, who knows. Anyway thanks everyone for informed responses.
 

chinaski

Regular Member
Unfortunately he won't be giving you the names and numbers of people who were unsuccessful in getting a job - so talking solely to the few who did is confirmation bias. Beware.
 
Ok spoke to the contact list he provided. They're all ones that graduated the same year from OUM (6 Australians) and all 6 got internships that year. They're not sure why the reported low number of AMC numbers and internship. Perhaps it could be because all except 1 did the work based assessment. (That is, they didnt do part 2). So 1 is doing GP training, another doing psychiatry, another doing EM, another waiting on training, another taking a year off as parent leave, and other is doing anesthes training. Mixed reports on how easy/difficult path is or was. Some glad they did this way, others noted it would have been far easier to go the Australian pathway but similar to me 10 year degree expired. Anyway, thought Id give a report back for those interested.
 

A1

Rookie Doc
Moderator
They're not sure why the reported low number of AMC numbers and internship.
Look in the Audit report again you'll see the bit about Late Vacancy process. After the main round of 3312 offers (concluded in Nov for them to start January) the LVM made an additional 75 offers in March of which 12 were declined. I guess these 12 vacancies could be filled on an individual basis later thus not shown in the Audit report.

So there is some hope. Having one year left if I were you I would complete it rather than throwing away the three completed years. Best of luck.
 
A1 Yeah thanks. Im thinking the same. Just get the thing out of my life and then see what happens. Thanks everyone. BTW why do current interns where I am look so tired? I thought the stress and long hours had improved. I'm not game to ask them in case they bite my head off lol.
 

chinaski

Regular Member
It's still a stressful and demanding job, regardless of how much hours might have improved. Further, they're green and learning on their feet - the process is exponential in PGY1.
 

b3527

Member
Hi, I am an onshore international applicant and I'd really like to get into Monash med (direct-entry). However, they have this rather concerning note that onshore applicants may have to defer their applications to 2024 entry since we get our results later in the year in comparison to overseas applicants. I'd rather not take a gap year, which is why this is pretty scary.

I was wondering if anyone in Monash med's international cohort knows how many (if any) onshore international applicants have gotten in from the previous year (e.g. 2021 onshore year 12 student got into 2022 MD program)? I'd really appreciate it :)
 

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Navid9675

Member
Hello, Dear all, Please, Do you know which one of the Medical schools in New Zealand and Australia has more available scholarships for studying medicine that can cover an important part of tuition fees? I'm about to graduate with a bachelor's degree in Medical Laboratory Science in Iran, a country near Turkey and Russia but I'm interested in studying medicine ( Preferably, graduate entry pathway) with scholarships? Sincerely yours Navid Eftekarian
 

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