Otago HSFY chat - archive

[OUSchweiz]

just to interject on this conversation, how are you finding HSFY Ben in regards to how much Foundation prepared you for it?

 

[greenglacier]

Nice to hear everyone got good marks in the CELS test - that average seems pretty standard, but there must have been a lot of high scoring students if you know of 3 already with 20/20! In my year I didn't know anyone who got 100% in the CELS test...

The HUBS essay - yeah, it'd be nice if they marked it for you, but when you see the marking schedule you'll see that it's pretty unambiguous. You don't get marks for quality of writing or how well you explain something. It's all about mentioning the point or not.

 

[frootloop]

Yeah its a little weird to hear of that many people with 100%, didn't think there'd be more than 3 in total with that...
So kinda like NCEA in that, if you hit the keywords they're after, you're sweet?
(Oh, and OUScheiz, I didn't do foundation personally, but I'd say it would prepare you at least as well, if not better (esp. since I hear there is an epi paper in it, something I'd say its unlikely many NCEA and CIE veterans have ever seen before), so you should be fine p.s, bist du deutsch? )

 

[OUSchweiz]

nein aber letzte Jahr machte ich ein Austauschjahr in die Schweiz.

 

[Ben]

just to interject on this conversation, how are you finding HSFY Ben in regards to how much Foundation prepared you for it?

It varies greatly between the papers, I would definitely have been less prepared going straight into HSFY rather than doing Foundation first though.

 

[frootloop]

[OFFTOPIC]

OUSchweiz
nein aber letzte Jahr machte ich ein Austauschjahr in die Schweiz.

Ascho, spass? Ich habs gehoert das es da gute skifahren gibt, aber nicht mehr (und tut mir leid wenn mein deutsch ein bisschen rustig ist, ich war nicht in DE seit 4 jahre )[/OFFTOPIC]

 

[Hinemoa]

Rural Entrance

Hi,
I was just wondering if anybody knows what kind of academic requirements there are for rural entrance into Medicine at Otago? I'm not even sure I'm eligible or not but I hear that the standards are lower? Isn't that a bit unfair on others?

Cheers

 

[Cathay]

I was just wondering if anybody knows what kind of academic requirements there are for rural entrance into Medicine at Otago? I'm not even sure I'm eligible or not but I hear that the standards are lower? Isn't that a bit unfair on others?

I did a bit of digging but didn't find explicit differences in "requirements" as far as HSFY goes (it seems to be that you'll be in a whole different subcategory competing against other rural candidates?) - but you are required to have spent "a significant portion" of your pre-secondary education in a rural (town of less than 20,000 people) environment, OR at least 3 years of your secondary education there, OR "equivalent rural experience".

The health sciences site says "The New Zealand Government has agreed to fund extra places in the Faculty of Medicine specifically focused towards those seeking medical careers in rural practice," so essentially by choosing the rural pathway you are going for one of the extra places, and, if my hypothesis on rural candidates competing with each other for the exclusive rural spots is true, then it's not unfair because the general population's spots aren't affected, and, in fact, the competition may be reduced (the top rural candidates may have displaced some general population people from the general population spots if they weren't in the rural subcategory).

Now, one of the fine-prints of rural admission is that you MAY (if they can't find enough volunteers) be sent off to a rural setting at some point in your med school years, so it's not entirely free lunch - you're expected to be a future country doctor (in loose phraseology), and that's why the government is paying for it.

 

[greenglacier]

OK, without beating around the bush, the cutoff for rural students (as defined by the criteria explained by cathay) is lower than the cutoff for general students, although it isn't that much lower. This means that rural students do have an advantage and in some cases a rural student may be chosen over a general student as a result of their being rural. The only trade off is that rural students MAY have to spend a year studying in a rural area - though to be honest, this option is reasonably popular (they have to make quite a few students who want to study rurally study in the urban centres because there aren't enough rural spaces), so it's very unlikely a rural origins student would be forced to go on a rural placement they didn't want to. There are no more formal expectations (you won't be forced to work rurally after graduation or anything).

There is some controversy, but preferential entry for rural students is pretty common among the NZ and Australian medical schools, so it definitely has a lot of support (including from myself). The idea is that rural students may face more barriers to studying medicine in the first place, and would be more likely to work rurally after graduation. You have to appreciate that medicine as a career is not about yourself - it's about the community you serve (the current dean of the Otago faculty of medicine is a big proponent of this point), and when it comes to admissions some students have to miss out, not on their own merits, but on the needs of the wider New Zealand population. That's just my 2 cents anyway.

 

[Cathay]

Ah, I see my impression is somewhat malformed.

I do agree with the preferential entry for rural, Maori and Pacific Island students because it is most certainly about the community, although I do admit that I need to appreciate the rest of the story (that the same goes for everyone else) more, especially on a more personal level - I have been driven by my fascination with knowledge of the human body and my desire to help people I encounter, but now I've realized that I've been completely missing the big picture - that at the end of the day, the entire purpose to the existence of the profession has nothing to do with the wishes or desires of individuals within the profession, and, by extension, that selection for med is not at all personal acceptance or rejection, but simply selecting people whose history (in the form of HSFY & UMAT results) indicates that they are best able to serve the community...

I don't know if it's just easy to overlook (because there's a crapload of "do what you're passionate about" and "study what you're interested in" flowing our way) or if I'm just an inherently bad, self-centred person, but the concept that "it's not about yourself, it's about the community you serve" can be applied to such a diverse range of careers that I am reasonably shocked it hasn't struck me before... I guess I owe GG some thanks for the enlightenment, lol, thanks GG.

 

[greenglacier]

I don't know if it's just easy to overlook (because there's a crapload of "do what you're passionate about" and "study what you're interested in" flowing our way) or if I'm just an inherently bad, self-centred person, but the concept that "it's not about yourself, it's about the community you serve" can be applied to such a diverse range of careers that I am reasonably shocked it hasn't struck me before...

Don't feel bad about yourself - it wasn't my mindset during first year either, and there are plenty of doctors who would say that the most important thing is to do what you want to do and let the community come second (and certainly I'd agree the first priority is to deal with your own wellbeing above all else). It's definitely not a clear cut area (hence the controversy about rural/Maori/PI preferential entry!).

What your post does bring up though is that I do think the attitude in HSFY is to view medicine as an amazing prize awarded to the smartest, hardest working people, rather than to view it for what it really is. It's a natural continuation of the competitive atmosphere, where the decision not to study medicine would be met with bewilderment by many. The reality though is that a lot of students work their butts off to get into med, are ecstatic when they get their offer, and only when classes start do they actually think about and properly reflect on what they've gotten themselves in for. The good news is that almost all such students end up happy doing med (probably because the decision to do HSFY and the motivation to work hard during it does suggest a decent amount of interest in it as a career), but there is often an adjustment period at the start of 2nd year when people adjust to the realisation of what they're in for (and the fact that it is just another university course - interesting, yes, but still hard work, still boring lectures, and not the "OMG I wake up happy every day and can't wait to go to class" paradise that it is made out to be in HSFY).

As I say, most people in med are happy to be there, and the dropout rate is very, very low, but I still do think it's worth reflecting on what it really is during HSFY (at least, as much as it's possible to reflect on it when you haven't even started studying it). In particular it's worth considering the fact that it is not a paradise by any means (in fact, medical students have alarmingly high rates of depression).

 

[SaxGuy]

Agreed - I definitely thought all my dreams had come true when I got accepted, but in reality, thoughts of YEARS more of study to even be able to manage patients independently, let alone the fact that its hard to imagine all the stuff that we're learning ever being second nature. In saying this, med is great and a huge privilege to be able to study. But there are times when I have to go to class and I find it hard to get out of my car.

 

[frootloop]

But there are times when I have to go to class and I find it hard to get out of my car.

You weren't used to that feeling after health sci?

 

[Cathay]

As I say, most people in med are happy to be there, and the dropout rate is very, very low, but I still do think it's worth reflecting on what it really is during HSFY (at least, as much as it's possible to reflect on it when you haven't even started studying it). In particular it's worth considering the fact that it is not a paradise by any means (in fact, medical students have alarmingly high rates of depression).

Yeah, in HSFY it's pretty simple - get every single mark possible, and beat the other guy to med, but as Dr House said to Masters, "Nothing will ever be simple again."

Agreed - I definitely thought all my dreams had come true when I got accepted

Yeah, reality is kind of depressing (from what I gather, getting into med in the grand scheme of things is like sorting out enrolment for HSFY in the HSFY scheme of things) - I mean I don't know what to believe but I don't think there's going to be any point in a medical career (or, for that matter, most careers) where life isn't full of more challenges to meet... Still, as you said, med is a huge privilege to be able to study, and it might be a privilege for a long road to a life of suck, but I will fight for that privilege. To justify it, it's just like that moment in Matrix Revolutions when Smith asked "Why, Mr Anderson, why? Why do you persist?!", Neo said "Because I choose to."


On a lighter note:

You weren't used to that feeling after health sci?

To quote GG, right now I feel pretty close to "OMG I wake up happy every day and can't wait to go to class" (lol I bet that's really weird coming from a health sci), so I don't think I'll feel the "hard to get out of car" effect just yet, lol.

 

[frootloop]

I'll continue with the 'lighter note' (given that heavy conversations online to me defeat the purpose of having a heavy conversation )
Really? You're a lucky one then, you should see me trying to get out of bed for HUBS at 8am. Not a pretty sight haha.

 

[SaxGuy]

I was used to it after health sci, but didn't expect it I guess once I was in med

 

[frootloop]

Fair enough I'll just be glad if/when I get in, and get to just enjoy the subject for what it is, rather than the pressure to know every pedantic detail.

 

[kaixian0011]

I do love the course material in Health Sci,
Definitely think I would enjoy med more,
Due to me enjoying HUBS and the occasional CELS (Not really).

However, on a completely unrelated note,
Does anyone know any good 1 on 1 chem tutor?
Would be great if you guys did or knows a friend who is good.
Or anyone here in fact, I don't want to call up someone from the advertising boards to find out he/her is crap.
Im sorta very far behind in Chem =[

 

[peterpanda]

Chem is up!

 

[frootloop]

Holy sh*t you're right. My apologies to Cathay for not believing when he said the chem results would be up soon
How'd everyone go? [OFFTOPIC]27/30. (n) thought I'd done better than that...[/OFFTOPIC]
Edit: Anyone know if we're allowed to see our papers? Can't remember which question was which, and would be interested to know what I screwed up. Alternatively, is there anyone on here who was allowed to keep theirs and wouldn't mind sending me a copy?
Double-edit: Kaixian, I have a chem tutor, but I'm not sure if she'd be overly stoked if I just handed out her number online should I ask her if she's got time for another student?