General Medicine Entry Discussion and Advice Requests

[2xq]

My child is currently studying in Canberra (ACT) and is interested in pursuing a career in medicine. During a discussion with friends, they mentioned that states give preference to students who studied within their own state. This means that if ATAR, UCAT, and interview scores are the same, local students might be prioritized over those from interstate. I wanted to check if this is accurate and hear from anyone in Canberra (ACT) who can share their thoughts or experiences on this topic. I am bit concerned that kid will be disadvantaged as there are no undergraduate medicine in ACT and will be considered interstate student.

Only some universities will favour their own local students more than interstate students but this is usually due to circumstances surrounding workplace demands within the state themselves - e.g. UTAS has a commitment to its own state by offering most of their places to Tasmanian applicants (mind you, UTAS is the only medical school in Tasmania)

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If your child is in Year 12, there are a few available pathways for ANU with their entry into their MChD without needing to sit GAMSAT (thought in my own opinion, the only one that really makes sense to take would be option 1 - Tuckwell Scholarship to Medicine Pathway (although still not guaranteed without passing all three stages of the application process and declaring interests in medicine throughout).

1) Tuckwell Scholarship to Medicine Pathway (Tuckwell-MChD pathway; Year 12 School Leaver Only) is limited to successful applicants at the Tuckwell selection interviews. Students are required to have declared upfront an interest in studying medicine in all three stages of the Tuckwell application process. Completion of an undergraduate degree at the ANU is mandatory prior to commencing the MChD.Scholars in the Tuckwell-MChD pathway apply directly to ANU and do not have to complete the GAMSAT or undertake an additional interview prior to entering the MChD program. More information can be found at tuckwell.anu.edu.au

2) B. Health Science pathway - Just being aware that this is not guaranteed and that this may be a pitfall as employment with a B. Health Science degree may be limited. Also will require taking subjects in the pre-medicine stream.




3) Bachelor of Philosophy (Honours) - Science - Again, same pitfall with the other one. No guarantee regarding entry into medicine. Employment opportunities with this degree may be limited. PhB(Hons) students who are interested in following this pathway must apply to join the pathway in July of Year 3 of their candidature in the PhB(Hons) degree via a form.
Acceptance into the pathway is conditional on:

1) maintaining 80%+ average in the first three years of the PhB(Hons) degree and prior to commencement of the Honours year. Students who maintain an average of 80% or higher throughout the PhB(Hons) program will not be required to sit the Graduate Australian MedicalSchool Admissions Test (GAMSAT);
2) successful completion of an Advanced Studies Course (ASC) in an area of medical research
3) satisfactory admission interview at the Medical School. Admissions interviews are held at the ANU Medical School in September each year and students may attend the interview in Year 3 of the PhB(Hons) program;

Note: A satisfactory interview is determined by the criteria applied in the year in which the applicant undertakes the interview.

 

[A1]

This means that if ATAR, UCAT, and interview scores are the same, local students might be prioritized over those from interstate. I wanted to check if this is accurate

Yes it is true for about half of the med schools. UQ, WSU, Monash, Adelaide, UTas, UWA... allocate 50% up to 80% of interview spots to in-state applicants. Griffith gives a small but crucial ATAR bonus to Qld students.

USyd(99.95), UMelb(99.90), USC(99.85), JCU(99.80 if non-rural), JMP, UNSW, Flinders, Notre Dame treat interstate applicants equally. I'm not sure about Curtin.

 

[Jangnada]

Hi guys, I’m really sorry but I am in a situation where I am feeling so stressed.

I am a student in New Zealand who just finished the alternative of Year 12, receiving an ATAR of 99.45 . My UCAT was horrid though,,, with a score of 2670.
I am also not considered a “rural” student.

I was wondering if anyone could please please please help me with any ‘guaranteed’ medical program that I will be able to get to, or even have a chance of getting into. I am ever so desperate so if anyone could help me, It would be sincerely appreciated. Kind Regards

 

[A1]

Hi guys, I’m really sorry but I am in a situation where I am feeling so stressed.

I am a student in New Zealand who just finished the alternative of Year 12, receiving an ATAR of 99.45 . My UCAT was horrid though,,, with a score of 2670.
I am also not considered a “rural” student.

I was wondering if anyone could please please please help me with any ‘guaranteed’ medical program that I will be able to get to, or even have a chance of getting into. I am ever so desperate so if anyone could help me, It would be sincerely appreciated. Kind Regards

The only "guaranteed" med available to you is UMelb 99.0+ pathway, but comes with two serious downsides.
Maybe there's enough time for you to submit a VTAC application for a/any UMelb undergrad course to start this year 2025. Downsides are you need to achieve 75 WAM + pass a 3rd-year MMI interview, and it only leads to a full-fee MD place costing ~Au$80,000 per MD year.

There's also the Bond option you can apply via QTAC for the May intake. But again being a private uni it's like $90,000 a year.

I think best option is to do the NZ HSFY and hope for NZ med, plus sit UCAT to apply to Notre Dame Sydney/Fremantle, UNSW (92+%ile), JMP (96+%ile), WSU (97-98%ile depending on how high the VR score).

 

[Jangnada]

The only "guaranteed" med available to you is UMelb 99.0+ pathway, but comes with two serious downsides.
Maybe there's enough time for you to submit a VTAC application for a/any UMelb undergrad course to start this year 2025. Downsides are you need to achieve 75 WAM + pass a 3rd-year MMI interview, and it only leads to a full-fee MD place costing ~Au$80,000 per MD year.

There's also the Bond option you can apply via QTAC for the May intake. But again being a private uni it's like $90,000 a year.

I think best option is to do the NZ HSFY and hope for NZ med, plus sit UCAT to apply to Notre Dame Sydney/Fremantle, UNSW (92+%ile), JMP (96+%ile), WSU (97-98%ile depending on how high the VR score).

right, I actually did try avoid VTAC applications earlier on due to a personal belief that there was no way I would get any offers from universities in Victoria especially due to my UCAT score. However, now hearing from you, it seems that applying should have been the right choice. I have just logged onto my VTAC account yet have come to the realisation that VTAC applications have closed (?). Is there an alternative way that I could still apply,,, any way?!?

On a side note, I was wondering, if I was to attend (per say) the University of Auckland (in NZ), would I still be able to transfer to these aussie schools (Notre Dame, JMP, UNSW), purely with my UCAT score?

Again, thank you so much for the reply.
Sincerely.


Sorry, also one additional question, if I was to perhaps attend UMelb following the 99.0 pathway, would I also be sitting the GAMSAT exam?!?
Kind regards.

 

[A1]

I have just logged onto my VTAC account yet have come to the realisation that VTAC applications have closed (?). Is there an alternative way that I could still apply,,, any way?!?

Try calling VTAC ask them if there's any way you can still apply for any UMelb 2025 undergrad course.
Applying directly to UMelb may be possible.
Sure you don't mind the $80,000 a year fee for the four MD years?

if I was to perhaps attend UMelb following the 99.0 pathway, would I also be sitting the GAMSAT exam?!?

No you don't need GAMSAT if you have 75 WAM + pass the MMI for a full-fee MD place.
You can still do GAMSAT to apply for a CSP MD place at the dozen graduate-entry schools including UMelb.

if I was to attend (per say) the University of Auckland (in NZ), would I still be able to transfer to these aussie schools (Notre Dame, JMP, UNSW), purely with my UCAT score?

You won't "transfer" but would be applying as non-standard to these schools^.
They will use your UCAT in addition to your HSFY GPA and/or ATAR, but with 99.45 I don't see the GPA/ATAR part being a problem.

See the section for Non-Standard in this table
> [Undergrad] - (2023 Updated) Med schools Selection Criteria Y12s & Non-standards

 

[Jangnada]

Try calling VTAC ask them if there's any way you can still apply for any UMelb 2025 undergrad course.
Sure you don't mind the $80,000 a year fee for the four MD years?


No you don't need GAMSAT if you have 75 WAM + pass the MMI for a full-fee MD place.
You can still do GAMSAT to apply for a CSP MD place at the dozen graduate-entry schools including UMelb.


You won't "transfer" but would be applying as non-standard to these schools^.
They will use your UCAT in addition to your HSFY GPA and/or ATAR, but with 99.45 I don't see the GPA/ATAR part being a problem.

See the section for Non-Standard in this table
> [Undergrad] - (2023 Updated) Med schools Selection Criteria Y12s & Non-standards

Right, so I am talking to my parents about the possibilities of going to UMelb however I just have one more question.
So I understand that the tuition fee is $80,000 per year for the four MD years, but what would be the annual cost for the three years before the MMI?

Thank you so much!

___________
A1 replies: The three undergrad years would be Cmwth-supported CSP, around $8k to $10k a year depending which degree course.
Btw I added to my previous post that if VTAC app is 100% closed maybe you can apply directly to UMelb. Ask VTAC then UMelb Admissions.

 

[Jangnada]

Right, so I am talking to my parents about the possibilities of going to UMelb however I just have one more question.
So I understand that the tuition fee is $80,000 per year for the four MD years, but what would be the annual cost for the three years before the MMI?

Thank you so much!

___________
A1 replies: The three undergrad years would be Cmwth-supported CSP, around $8k to $10k a year depending which degree course.
Btw I added to my previous post that if VTAC app is 100% closed maybe you can apply directly to UMelb. Ask VTAC then UMelb Admissions.

I can’t thank you enough, truly.
Though slightly hesitant, it seems that we are happy with following this UMelb pathway.
Would it be possible for you to please tell me the exact name of the course?
Sorry I’m asking for so much I truly just don’t want to mess up anything during this process.

 

[A1]

I can’t thank you enough, truly.
Though slightly hesitant, it seems that we are happy with following this UMelb pathway.
Would it be possible for you to please tell me the exact name of the course?
Sorry I’m asking for so much I truly just don’t want to mess up anything during this process.

See this webpage, scroll down to the Health Sciences
> Guaranteed and flexible undergraduate to graduate degree pathways

Afaik you can do practically any undergrad degree for this full-fee pathway.
Also same for any graduate-entry schools for a CSP place if you decide to sit the GAMSAT, except for U-Qld.

UQ requires a few Biomed prereqs in your undergrad to be eligible.

 

[Tomato]

The only "guaranteed" med available to you is UMelb 99.0+ pathway, but comes with two serious downsides.
Maybe there's enough time for you to submit a VTAC application for a/any UMelb undergrad course to start this year 2025. Downsides are you need to achieve 75 WAM + pass a 3rd-year MMI interview, and it only leads to a full-fee MD place costing ~Au$80,000 per MD year.

There's also the Bond option you can apply via QTAC for the May intake. But again being a private uni it's like $90,000 a year.

I think best option is to do the NZ HSFY and hope for NZ med, plus sit UCAT to apply to Notre Dame Sydney/Fremantle, UNSW (92+%ile), JMP (96+%ile), WSU (97-98%ile depending on how high the VR score).

How many places for both UNDS and UNDF for the school leavers? The UND website says up to 40. Is that the total for both campuses?

___________
A1 replies: I'm pretty sure it's 20 places each UND Sydney / Fremantle.
Btw each campus has about 120 places. Fremantle is all CSP (incl 30 Bonded), Sydney is 60 CSP (incl 17 Bonded) 60 FFP.

 

[Jangnada]

See this webpage, scroll down to the Health Sciences
> Guaranteed and flexible undergraduate to graduate degree pathways

Afaik you can do practically any undergrad degree for this full-fee pathway.
Also same for any graduate-entry schools for a CSP place if you decide to sit the GAMSAT, except for U-Qld.

UQ requires a few Biomed prereqs in your undergrad to be eligible.

right, so I’m mainly trying to cut out the possibility of sitting the GAMSAT, whilst still going to australia for university. Melbourne would be my best shot at graduating to become a doctor right?

___________
A1 replies: Yes UMelb 99.0 is the only way to avoid GAMSAT.
You can also sit UCAT in 1st/2nd year to apply non-standard to ND, JMP, WSU, UNSW.
Note UNSW will require GPA 6.5+ to convert to 99.50+, your 99.45 just misses out. WSU is good with 99.45 regardless of GPA. JMP 4.8+ is easy.

 

[Jangnada]

See this webpage, scroll down to the Health Sciences
> Guaranteed and flexible undergraduate to graduate degree pathways

Afaik you can do practically any undergrad degree for this full-fee pathway.
Also same for any graduate-entry schools for a CSP place if you decide to sit the GAMSAT, except for U-Qld.

UQ requires a few Biomed prereqs in your undergrad to be eligible.

Sorry, I don’t quite understand this.

right, so I’m mainly trying to cut out the possibility of sitting the GAMSAT, whilst still going to australia for university. Melbourne would be my best shot at graduating to become a doctor right?

___________
A1 replies: Yes UMelb 99.0 is the only way to avoid GAMSAT.
You can also sit UCAT in 1st/2nd year to apply non-standard to ND, JMP, WSU, UNSW.
Note UNSW will require GPA 6.5+ to convert to 99.50+, your 99.45 just misses out. WSU is good with 99.45 regardless of GPA. JMP 4.8+ is easy.

sounds great!
Im sorry this will be the last time I bother you but what is the exact name of the undergraduate course (for reference to ask VTAC when I call them tomorrow).

 

[A1]

Sorry, I don’t quite understand this.

Ignore that part^ if you are not going to try GAMSAT.
I included it in case you wanted to.

but what is the exact name of the undergraduate course (for reference to ask VTAC when I call them tomorrow).

I've mentioned couple of times it can be *any* UMelb undergrad degree of your choice.
So you think up 3-4 degrees in order of your own preference, then ask VTAC or UMelb Admissions if you can get in one of them.

When you come to applying for a Med MMI in 3rd year UMelb will verify that you entered with 99.0+ for eligibility. For peace of mind you can also verify with them in advance while you're in 1st year there.

 

[Jangnada]

Ignore that part^ if you are not going to try GAMSAT.
I included it in case you wanted to.


I've mentioned couple of times it can be *any* UMelb undergrad degree of your choice.
So you think up 3-4 degrees in order of your own preference, then ask VTAC or UMelb Admissions if you can get in one of them.

When you come to applying for a Med MMI in 3rd year UMelb will verify that you entered with 99.0+ for eligibility. For peace of mind you can also verify with them in advance while you're in 1st year there.

Thank you. I’ve been asking around, and have heard so frequently about the difficulty of getting into the full fee MD place. How hard really is it to pass the 75 WAM threshold + make it through the mmi’s?

Kind regards.

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Thank you. I’ve been asking around, and have heard so frequently about the difficulty of getting into the full fee MD place. How hard really is it to pass the 75 WAM threshold + make it through the mmi’s?

Kind regards.

There’s lots of information about this and your other questions already collated here for you to read through. You can also use the search function.

This would be where to start: UMelb - UMelb Medicine: Provisional Entry Questions and Discussion

 

[A1]

Thank you. I’ve been asking around, and have heard so frequently about the difficulty of getting into the full fee MD place. How hard really is it to pass the 75 WAM threshold + make it through the mmi’s?

For a 99.45 ATAR I think 75 WAM is not difficult.

As for passing the MMI, UMelb full-fee FFP has a quota of 45-50 places. I have *speculated* that if the number of 99.0+ contenders exceed this quota UMelb may raise the MMI pass marks to let only 45-50 pass, in effect turning guaranteed into competitive. But others have said this FFP quota is usually not filled so not to worry. As DrLMG said it's all in the UMelb thread.

 

[TonyYeah]

I've been curious about the pathways to studying medicine. Why is it that for the undergraduate route (assured pathway), many universities require a 3-year Biomedical Science degree before starting a medical degree, making it a total of 7 years? In contrast, postgraduate medicine can be completed in 4 years by individuals from various non-health backgrounds like engineers, lawyers, and computer scientists. Similarly, for dentistry, the Doctor of Dentistry program takes 4 years, and the undergraduate pathway takes 5 years. Why does the undergraduate medical pathway take so much longer? Given that time is finite, why do universities and governments choose to allocate resources in a way that extends the time students spend in education before they can start working?

 

[DrDrLMG!]

I've been curious about the pathways to studying medicine. Why is it that for the undergraduate route (assured pathway), many universities require a 3-year Biomedical Science degree before starting a medical degree, making it a total of 7 years? In contrast, postgraduate medicine can be completed in 4 years by individuals from various non-health backgrounds like engineers, lawyers, and computer scientists. Similarly, for dentistry, the Doctor of Dentistry program takes 4 years, and the undergraduate pathway takes 5 years. Why does the undergraduate medical pathway take so much longer? Given that time is finite, why do universities and governments choose to allocate resources in a way that extends the time students spend in education before they can start working?

I don’t think many unis do require that for med? Lots don’t require any undergraduate degree at all (direct entry), while some require an undergraduate degree of any/various kind (ie. UQ, UMelb, USyd etc), and some specify an undergrad (though it tends to be Med Sci, I think, rather than Biomed?).

I have a cynical reason for those (few) that specify the Med Sci or Bio Med or whatever…. inflating numbers in an expensive (but ultimately unnecessary) undergrad course!

 

[TonyYeah]

I don’t think many unis do require that for med? Lots don’t require any undergraduate degree at all (direct entry), while some require an undergraduate degree of any/various kind (ie. UQ, UMelb, USyd etc), and some specify an undergrad (though it tends to be Med Sci, I think, rather than Biomed?).

I have a cynical reason for those (few) that specify the Med Sci or Bio Med or whatever…. inflating numbers in an expensive (but ultimately unnecessary) undergrad course!

Yes, I got an offer to study at Notre Dame University this year and it needs 3 years of biomedical science plus 4 years of doctor of medicine. I also find the biomedical science part completely unnecessary, but it's the only medical offer I got

 

[2xq]

TonyYeah The thing you're pointing out is the provisional/assured pathways as opposed to the GAMSAT/POSTGRAD pathway. I'm going to use Notre Dame (UNDA) as the example here. UNDA has always been a postgraduate medicine University with their Doctor of Medicine (MD). Their MD is a postgraduate degree. With the assured pathway, essentially it's a program that allows you to enter MD without sitting GAMSAT. So in this case, it would be BiomedSci (3 years - with a threshold grade requirement) followed by the MD (4 years).
You might think why? Well to study a postgraduate degree, you need an undergraduate degree and that's sort of what the provisional pathway is leveraging here (somewhat assured way to get into MD). Why would they do this? No one but them would realistically know but one possible reason would be to increase the number of students through their Biomed Sci course (in which you can probably tell, has worked. Applicants would be very happy to do medicine as long as they are assured entry into the MD (like yourself in this case). That being said, you could choose to do any undergraduate degree of your choosing and then apply for the MD instead with GAMSAT and with a competitive undegraduate GPA but you've chosen the assured pathway because of its appeal that you can do the MD provided you meet that academic threshold during your undergrad BiomedSci.

I hope that makes sense to you.